The Role of Luck in Life Is Still Misunderstood • Hacker News Board

Re: The Role of Luck in Life Is Still Misunderstood

#51

Post by maxxxxx » Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 1:58 PM UTC

noelwelsh wrote: post #41

thanatropism wrote: post #8

I still think the focus on wealth/income inequality rather than on absolute poverty is irrational. I've seen people justify it to me on the grounds that people care about relative poverty, which to me reads "people are jealous". But then the result is: 1) A focus on inequality is irrational. 2) People focus on inequality for irrational reasons. This means that if policy-makers and intellectuals fully give in to the p…

Unfortunately, human society is made up of humans, irrational though they may be. A high degree of inequality usually indicates one of two things: a dictatorship, or a society that is liable to vote in populist leaders (and hence potentially turn into a dictatorship). An highly unequal society is not a healthy society.

"An highly unequal society is not a healthy society."

That's the most important point. If people stop feeling that they have a part of growth in the economy they stop engaging and a country loses cohesion.

Re: The Role of Luck in Life Is Still Misunderstood

#52

Post by eksemplar » Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 1:59 PM UTC

spicymaki wrote: post #44

America's aversion to the role of luck is based on the Protestant work ethic. There is no chance and everything is predetermined by God's grace. God's grace is demonstrated by hard work, frugality, and discipline. There is a concept of double predetermination where you already need to be saved to be saved. Which means the poor is poor not because of chance, but because they lack God's grace.

This is true, but the root of modern democracy has its birth in the same line of hard working and responsible way of living humbly.

Re: The Role of Luck in Life Is Still Misunderstood

#53

Post by frgtpsswrdlame » Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 1:59 PM UTC

aje403 wrote: post #45

pron wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason we care so much about inequality has nothing to do with jealousy and everything to do with power[1]. As resources are a major source of power (and often vice-versa), and because power is relative, inequality of resources means inequality of power. And as power means influence (and so the ability to reduce another's freedom), inequality reduces overall freedom. As freedom can never be total[2], the question…

This is a distortion. Young men see rich men with beautiful women flying to anywhere they want on the planet. Only a few of them will get that when they're older, and it oftens boils down to intelligence, work ethic, cleverness, other abilities like athletics and looks, and a few lucky breaks that they take advantage of. Exceptions being inherited wealth. Law of averages, those who do make it are hard working and int…

What makes you think that often it boils down to intelligence and work ethic and the exceptions are inherited wealth. The law of averages is just as likely to support the idea that those who are born into high class families will stay high class as it is what you're proposing.

Re: The Role of Luck in Life Is Still Misunderstood

#54

Post by TremendousJudge » Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 2:00 PM UTC

aje403 wrote: post #45

pron wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason we care so much about inequality has nothing to do with jealousy and everything to do with power[1]. As resources are a major source of power (and often vice-versa), and because power is relative, inequality of resources means inequality of power. And as power means influence (and so the ability to reduce another's freedom), inequality reduces overall freedom. As freedom can never be total[2], the question…

This is a distortion. Young men see rich men with beautiful women flying to anywhere they want on the planet. Only a few of them will get that when they're older, and it oftens boils down to intelligence, work ethic, cleverness, other abilities like athletics and looks, and a few lucky breaks that they take advantage of. Exceptions being inherited wealth. Law of averages, those who do make it are hard working and int…

You contradict yourself. You say that "those who do make it are hard working and intelligent", while also acknowledging that there are people who "made it" who aren't "hard working and intelligent" (Scott Disick, Donald JR).

Re: The Role of Luck in Life Is Still Misunderstood

#55

Post by icantdrive55 » Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 2:00 PM UTC

rptv wrote: post #26

mapcars wrote: post #2

I'm not quite getting how can you put talent vs luck, when talent is based on luck you got from your genes, parents, environment etc. I see it as the same thing.

Well, sure. You have your luck as determined at conception, your luck of upbringing, and then your luck as an adult. They're all luck-based, but qualitatively different.

I like to keep it simple; if you have a sympathetic, wealthy father/mother--you will have to work pretty hard to screw up the lucky lottery ticket.

Re: The Role of Luck in Life Is Still Misunderstood

#56

Post by hfdgiutdryg » Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 2:01 PM UTC

aje403 wrote: post #45

pron wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason we care so much about inequality has nothing to do with jealousy and everything to do with power[1]. As resources are a major source of power (and often vice-versa), and because power is relative, inequality of resources means inequality of power. And as power means influence (and so the ability to reduce another's freedom), inequality reduces overall freedom. As freedom can never be total[2], the question…

This is a distortion. Young men see rich men with beautiful women flying to anywhere they want on the planet. Only a few of them will get that when they're older, and it oftens boils down to intelligence, work ethic, cleverness, other abilities like athletics and looks, and a few lucky breaks that they take advantage of. Exceptions being inherited wealth. Law of averages, those who do make it are hard working and int…

However, everyone still wants the hot girl and the jet.

I'd settle for decent healthcare and enough stable income to raise a family.

Should the group, who by and large, has contributed more to the society not have proportionally more say?

1) They haven't and 2) no. You appear to be advocating plutocracy.

Re: The Role of Luck in Life Is Still Misunderstood

#57

Post by cryoshon » Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 2:04 PM UTC

aje403 wrote: post #45

pron wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason we care so much about inequality has nothing to do with jealousy and everything to do with power[1]. As resources are a major source of power (and often vice-versa), and because power is relative, inequality of resources means inequality of power. And as power means influence (and so the ability to reduce another's freedom), inequality reduces overall freedom. As freedom can never be total[2], the question…

This is a distortion. Young men see rich men with beautiful women flying to anywhere they want on the planet. Only a few of them will get that when they're older, and it oftens boils down to intelligence, work ethic, cleverness, other abilities like athletics and looks, and a few lucky breaks that they take advantage of. Exceptions being inherited wealth. Law of averages, those who do make it are hard working and int…

you said it yourself: "a few lucky breaks".

if we affirm the existing power rather than redistribute it, we're exaggerating the impact of luck by affirming that those who are lucky are by definition those who are more deserving of luck and power. even though the major differentiating factor between them and legions of identical people was luck.

Re: The Role of Luck in Life Is Still Misunderstood

#58

Post by fsiefken » Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 2:05 PM UTC

Long ago I stumbled upon bound copies of the Journal of Parapsychology in the basement of the university library, when looking for written lectures on Nietzsche.

One of the articles was about finding people who attract more good luck and people who attract more bad luck while ruling all kinds of psychological, behavioural or environmental factors. The relevance the authors argued was that persons with bad luck could be screened for to not work for nuclear facilities. I really wanted to find that article again, but the library has been rebuilt and I don't come there often.

Re: The Role of Luck in Life Is Still Misunderstood

#59

Post by aerique » Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 2:05 PM UTC

spicymaki wrote: post #44

America's aversion to the role of luck is based on the Protestant work ethic. There is no chance and everything is predetermined by God's grace. God's grace is demonstrated by hard work, frugality, and discipline. There is a concept of double predetermination where you already need to be saved to be saved. Which means the poor is poor not because of chance, but because they lack God's grace.

Convenient.

Re: The Role of Luck in Life Is Still Misunderstood

#60

Post by aje403 » Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 2:06 PM UTC

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #53

aje403 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a distortion. Young men see rich men with beautiful women flying to anywhere they want on the planet. Only a few of them will get that when they're older, and it oftens boils down to intelligence, work ethic, cleverness, other abilities like athletics and looks, and a few lucky breaks that they take advantage of. Exceptions being inherited wealth. Law of averages, those who do make it are hard working and int…

What makes you think that often it boils down to intelligence and work ethic and the exceptions are inherited wealth. The law of averages is just as likely to support the idea that those who are born into high class families will stay high class as it is what you're proposing.

I did not write a lengthy thesis to explicate every idea, but I would associate inherited wealth with high class and would certainly not consider that a slight stretch.