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A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

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Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#51

Post by PakG1 »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #14
krapp wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet (as I hear) the Samurai they emulate considered their bows to be their primary weapon, and their spears their secondary weapon, and considered it a disgrace to ever need to draw their sword. They also used guns when they became available. They were soldiers and mercenaries, after all.

Of course manga heroes are more about romantic ideals than historical accuracy, but even so, you can't really generalize about all samurai any more than you can generalize about all European knights. The samurai class existed in one form or another for around a millennium. I rather doubt that they all considered it a "disgrace" to draw their sword.

If it was a disgrace to draw the sword, I imagine that swordsmanship and sword styles would not be so highly regarded, and there wouldn't have been entire dojos devoted to specific styles. If that were really the case, I imagine there would have been more dojos devoted to archery and spear styles, and those would have been held in higher regard than sword styles. Perhaps that actually was the case, but "popular" historical accounts seem to say otherwise?

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#52

Post by opencl »

warent wrote: post #37
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #8

The retired cop then noted that even the yakuza don’t like to use guns these days — because the penalties are too high...One mid-level yakuza boss told me, “Having a gun now is like having a time bomb. Do you think any sane person wants to keep one around the house?” https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/01/06/national/media-...

As much as I want to believe this is true, I can't help but question the accuracy of the japan times reporting on Japan. In my mind, it's like RT reporting on Russia

This seems like a bit of an odd complaint, do you think journalism has to be done by foreigners?

Or if your comparison to RT is about them being owned/heavily influenced by the government, they're not: the NHK is the quasi-governmental news org in Japan.

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#53

Post by scythe »

sametmax wrote: post #29
s_m_t wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In certain cities in the United States going to jail for shooting and killing someone is something of a networking retreat for criminals. You plead down to manslaughter and may serve less than 3 years. Great way to jumpstart your career and gain credibility on the streets.

3 years for manslaughter ? That seems a very, very low sentence for taking a life.

Sentence is more like ten years, parole in three. Manslaughter unlike murder is supposed to be unintentional. Of course if the criminals are "networking" in prison, that should prevent parole, but cost-cutting privatization in the prison industry has ensured that doesn't happen. Likewise the only reason that it's a manslaughter charge in the first place is that witness protection, and therefore cooperation, is dismal. Simply put the legitimacy of the US government has declined in some areas, although this process really kicked off in the 1960s.

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#54

Post by sametmax »

jschwartzi wrote: post #43
sametmax wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 years for manslaughter ? That seems a very, very low sentence for taking a life.

Be careful when you react this way. This kind of thinking leads to mandatory minimums for nonviolent drug offenses, shoplifting, and all kinds of petty crimes that aren't typically perpetrated by hardened criminals with violent tendencies. It's the kind of thinking that fills our prisons with people who really belong in therapy or a psych ward. Killing someone is bad, very bad. But murder charges should be reserved f…

Let's say it this way: imagine it was not prison, but a full therapy treatment and rehabilitation. Do you think that 3 years is enough to rehabilitate an adult that all the events in life lead him or her to kill somebody ?

Some people take 10 years to quit smoking.

Also, while I agree with your point on abusing the justice system and not using it for revenge, you must not forget that:

- currently we also use it as a deterrent system. Even if it doesn't work very well. If somebody is capable of killing someone else, there is a huge different between knowing you will pay 3 years or 10 for it. 3 years to get a reputation or get rid of a life road block could be calculated as an acceptable price.

- there is also the way the non-killers will see the system. If people are being honest, and they witness more and more than being a criminal has not the consequences they though is should have, then people will loose any trust they have in the system. It's a very bad long term side effect to have for a society. Really, really bad.

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#55

Post by Larrikin »

warent wrote: post #37
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #8

The retired cop then noted that even the yakuza don’t like to use guns these days — because the penalties are too high...One mid-level yakuza boss told me, “Having a gun now is like having a time bomb. Do you think any sane person wants to keep one around the house?” https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/01/06/national/media-...

As much as I want to believe this is true, I can't help but question the accuracy of the japan times reporting on Japan. In my mind, it's like RT reporting on Russia

I don't believe the Japan Times is a propaganda arm of the Japanese government in the same way as RT. They aren't as old an organization as Mainichi Shimbun for example, but I wouldn't group them with RT or Sputnik. Television news organizations in the country have to tread lightly, since they have to come hat in hand to the government when they need to renew their broadcasting licenses, but I don't believe other news organizations have that kind of power exercised over them by the national government.

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#56

Post by Balgair »

Lazare wrote: post #27

Interesting fact: Firearms were present in Japan beginning in the 13th century, but saw little adoption. In 1543, the Portuguese introduced matchlock firearms, a much more impressive weapon, and Japan embraced them. They began manufacturing them in great numbers, researching firearms technology, and fielding armies equipped with firearms, which they used to great effect. In 1592 a Japanese force invaded Korea and rap…

Xtra History on Adm. Yi : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ieaDfD_h6s

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#57

Post by [deleted] »

s_m_t wrote: post #21
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #8

The retired cop then noted that even the yakuza don’t like to use guns these days — because the penalties are too high...One mid-level yakuza boss told me, “Having a gun now is like having a time bomb. Do you think any sane person wants to keep one around the house?” https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/01/06/national/media-...

In certain cities in the United States going to jail for shooting and killing someone is something of a networking retreat for criminals. You plead down to manslaughter and may serve less than 3 years. Great way to jumpstart your career and gain credibility on the streets.

[deleted]

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#58

Post by scythe »

krapp wrote: post #6
posix_compliant wrote: post #2

“Their reasons for remaining gun-free revolved around some loosely held concept of honor,” Beck says. “Being able to move your finger on a trigger is not really a skill that wows anyone.” I find this mindset is reflected in a lot of manga produced in Japan. Heroes are often paired with swords: Rurouni Kenshin, Inu Yasha, and Bleach to name a few.

And yet (as I hear) the Samurai they emulate considered their bows to be their primary weapon, and their spears their secondary weapon, and considered it a disgrace to ever need to draw their sword. They also used guns when they became available. They were soldiers and mercenaries, after all.

Projectiles are obviously more effective in a large battle, as demonstrated notably by Khan, G et al 1209, 1215, 1221, etc.

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#59

Post by fenomas »

warent wrote: post #37
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #8

The retired cop then noted that even the yakuza don’t like to use guns these days — because the penalties are too high...One mid-level yakuza boss told me, “Having a gun now is like having a time bomb. Do you think any sane person wants to keep one around the house?” https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/01/06/national/media-...

As much as I want to believe this is true, I can't help but question the accuracy of the japan times reporting on Japan. In my mind, it's like RT reporting on Russia

Huh? Japan Times isn't state media, it's a regular private newspaper. Japan Times reporting on Japan is akin to the New York Times reporting on New York.

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#60

Post by philliphaydon »

warent wrote: post #37
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #8

The retired cop then noted that even the yakuza don’t like to use guns these days — because the penalties are too high...One mid-level yakuza boss told me, “Having a gun now is like having a time bomb. Do you think any sane person wants to keep one around the house?” https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/01/06/national/media-...

As much as I want to believe this is true, I can't help but question the accuracy of the japan times reporting on Japan. In my mind, it's like RT reporting on Russia

Can't be any worse than any news outlet in America reporting on America.
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