Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#51

Post by lowdest » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 1:59 AM UTC

fpvracing wrote: post #18

I designed a hardware product but haven't brought it to market because even if it is successful, Chinese manufacturers will reverse engineer it and then have a cheaper clone on the market within weeks, long before I can recoup even the cost of manufacturing, let alone make a profit. And since I can't afford to pursue legal action, it seems pointless to manufacture the product, and everybody loses. I wonder how much i…

The one advantage you have is that your competitors aren't aware of you yet, so use that time to prepare. I'd say either pursue minimum-cost overseas manufacturing right away, before you have competition, or position your brand to be higher quality than Chinese imports.

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#52

Post by NathanKP » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 1:59 AM UTC

sabalaba wrote: post #47

NathanKP wrote: post #24

Full disclosure I work for Amazon (on the web services side). The author of this article clearly doesn't know much about selling on Amazon, because what he is asking for is possible. It's called the Amazon Brand Registry. You can contact the infringment team using the details here and initiate the process of getting your brand / ASIN locked so that other people can't sell it without your permission: https://www.amazo…

Since you work on the web services side it's forgivable that you would think that link to reporting infringement is an effective solution / something that Amazon pays close attention to. We've sold hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of product on Amazon, found a company selling a counterfeit version of our product, and submitted a complaint to that URL. That was on 4/5/2016. We have yet to receive a response. The…

Gotcha. Yeah I don't sell on Amazon myself or work on the retail side so I can't speak to the effectiveness on that side. It sounds like something they need to improve upon.

Have you looked up Brand Gating too? My (admittedly limited) understanding is that Brand Registry is step #1 and Brand Gating is the next level beyond that: https://www.helium10.com/blog/selling-on-amazon/brand-gating...

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#53

Post by Terretta » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:00 AM UTC

NathanKP wrote: post #24

Full disclosure I work for Amazon (on the web services side). The author of this article clearly doesn't know much about selling on Amazon, because what he is asking for is possible. It's called the Amazon Brand Registry. You can contact the infringment team using the details here and initiate the process of getting your brand / ASIN locked so that other people can't sell it without your permission: https://www.amazo…

Did you read your own link?

"We do not enforce ... Detail Page Ownership ... Exclusive or Selective Distribution."

As long as the counterfeit is good enough, don't bother complaining:

"Other sellers can list their items for sale against pages that you have created or added your copyrighted images to. However, we do require sellers to list only against detail pages that exactly match their items. If you believe sellers are listing against detail pages that do not exactly match their items, we ask that you report the violation directly by using the contact us form."

Why do the counterfeiters get to use your own picture of your own product? Because Amazon claims the rights from you:

"Additionally, when you add your copyrighted image to a detail page, you grant Amazon and its affiliates a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable right to exercise all rights of publicity over the material."

And that brand registry? Does it mean your brand is yours? No, it's just 'increased authority' ...

"increased authority over product listings with your brand name"

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#54

Post by freyir » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:01 AM UTC

drharby wrote: post #31

freyir wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's strange that a company sells its customers counterfeit goods, and we still praise them for "good customer service."

Is it? Customer service is independent from the primary business transaction being executed. They are fucking up but compensate through good cust. Service. Seems like a policy decision, as fighting it costs more than the break fix

It is.

Good customer service should start with not selling customers counterfeit crap in the first place. Instead, the phrase "customer service" means something extremely specific, i.e., a good return policy for customers who realize they've lost at Amazon's game of counterfeit roulette.

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#55

Post by lowdest » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:01 AM UTC

prepend wrote: post #44

krapp wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So hire a Chinese company to manufacture it on the cheap to begin with. Isn't that what everyone does anyway? The market doesn't care about who has the best idea, or who had it first, it only cares about who comes to market with the best deal for the consumer.

A friend of mine tried this. Chinese company delayed shipment to US and flooded amazon with counterfeits made on the same line. By the time the product made it through customs his “partner” had sold thousands.

I was wondering if that would be an issue. It might be worthwhile to present it to the factory as something else. E.g. a quadcopter part presented as handheld fan for hot weather.

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#56

Post by wmf » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:02 AM UTC

drharby wrote: post #31

freyir wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's strange that a company sells its customers counterfeit goods, and we still praise them for "good customer service."

Is it? Customer service is independent from the primary business transaction being executed. They are fucking up but compensate through good cust. Service. Seems like a policy decision, as fighting it costs more than the break fix

To me, "service" encompasses the entire experience of dealing with the company. A company that makes mistakes and fixes them quickly shouldn't be considered better than a company that doesn't make mistakes in the first place.

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#57

Post by sokoloff » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:04 AM UTC

> Jeff Bezos, if you're reading this, come on - this is day 2 activity.

It's always "Day 1" at Amazon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTwXS2H_iJo

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#58

Post by hop » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:04 AM UTC

NathanKP wrote: post #24

Full disclosure I work for Amazon (on the web services side). The author of this article clearly doesn't know much about selling on Amazon, because what he is asking for is possible. It's called the Amazon Brand Registry. You can contact the infringment team using the details here and initiate the process of getting your brand / ASIN locked so that other people can't sell it without your permission: https://www.amazo…

You really think the author of the post (me) doesn't communicate regularly with the Brand Registry team? Day 5 for them to do anything on this latest one.

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#59

Post by maxxxxx » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:05 AM UTC

drharby wrote: post #31

freyir wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's strange that a company sells its customers counterfeit goods, and we still praise them for "good customer service."

Is it? Customer service is independent from the primary business transaction being executed. They are fucking up but compensate through good cust. Service. Seems like a policy decision, as fighting it costs more than the break fix

You can't call this good. They are fucking up on purpose and have made a calculation that most people won't notice and it's cheaper to refund the few that do. That's terrible customer and feels very unethical.

Re: Amazon's policies promote counterfeiting

#60

Post by shard » Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 2:05 AM UTC

sdrothrock wrote: post #19

hemoglob2 wrote: post #11

while i agree with your post, "The current counterfeit seller, suiningdonghanjiaju Co Ltd (yeah they sound legit), " could be construed as a racist comment

I think it could be CONSTRUED as a racist comment, but the person thinking of it that way would be really stretching, in my opinion. 1. All of these counterfeit items are coming from China. 2. The legit seller is ElevationLab, which "suiningdonghanjiaju Co Ltd" is not. 3. "suiningdonghanjiaju Co Ltd" is a Chinese name. 4. "suiningdonghanjiaju Co Ltd" is a very customer-unfriendly name -- not something you'd see from…

Some counterpoints and comments.

1. So many legit items come from China that as a consumer you can't dismiss something out of hand just because it came from China. 3. Huawei is a Chinese name, Xiaomi is a Chinese name. See #1. 4. This is a legitimate point. The company did not optimize their name for a non-Chinese audience.

I think the main thrust of why that comment has racist tones is because it feels like the main complaint is that it's a foreign (non-Western) sounding name, hard to pronounce and funny looking, therefore it cannot be legitimate.

(Actually, I don't know if you did it on purpose, but nihaobaobaomao is a great name... It's very cute and sounds like "Hello bundle kitty"...)