How much money do people need to be happy? • Hacker News Board

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#51

Post by sjg007 » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 10:31 PM UTC

derekp7 wrote: post #4

Is this net income (after taxes, and possibly after 401k [or equivalent] savings)? I would say that having no debt, or at least having manageable debt, along with knowing you are saving enough for retirement, and making enough that you don't have to second-guess if you can afford every purchase you make, is the real cutoff. For example, if you don't have mortgage debt then you are probably renting. So I consider mort…

Absolutely. Money saves time and stress. You can pay people to do other things for you. You can afford to take a vacation. You can also probably afford a temporary job loss (unless you are mortgaged to the hilt). You can afford to start a startup in some cases. Still I am pretty sure you can find people who make $250k that are miserable, possibly because of the working conditions.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#52

Post by sjg007 » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 10:32 PM UTC

dgacmu wrote: post #45

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is this net income (after taxes, and possibly after 401k [or equivalent] savings)? No, it's before tax income. Income Variables. Participants were asked to report monthly household income rather than yearly income to facilitate responding. Respondents were asked the question, “What is your total monthly household income in [local currency], before taxes? Please include income from wages and salaries, remittances fro…

It's also worth noting that it's normalized to household size -- income divided by sqrt(household size). So for a married couple with two children -- a number close to my own heart -- the 105k satiation point would be real dollars of 210k/year. Dollars are also represented as International Dollars, which are adjusted for the local purchasing power, expressed in units equivalent to one USD in the US.

That makes sense. It's a lot and doesn't go very far in the Bay area but it makes things better than just 105k-120k for a family of 4 which can work but can be stressful.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#53

Post by Nition » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 10:34 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #23

Nition wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect there is another level above that at financial independence, where you have enough wealth that you don't have to work. Where you can lose the fear of losing your job, or go off and work on what you want even if it doesn't make much or any money.

There might be a fine line there; humans need a sense of purpose, and for many people, purpose is tied up in our job. If you no longer have to work, and you choose not to work because your current job isn't ideal, it can be hard to get the motivation to search for a new job. At the same time, without work, it can be hard to find purpose. So you might be stuck in a situation where you aren't working and struggling to…

Personally I have so many projects I want to work on (where the motivation is making a Good Thing rather than getting rich) that I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be the case for me. But I can see it being the case for others.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#54

Post by Stanleyc23 » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 10:34 PM UTC

this study appears built off the assume that everyone has the same "satiation point". that doesn't seem like a good assumption to me.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#55

Post by sjg007 » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 10:36 PM UTC

tsomctl wrote: post #9

CodeCube wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me/us asking ... what did your grandpa do to acquire his wealth? Was he an entrepreneur?

Owned his own small plumbing business. Built a reputation of doing excellent, reliable, honest work and was certified to do unusual things, like medical gas in hospitals.

The trades are undervalued I think as a career choice these days.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#56

Post by antisthenes » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 10:36 PM UTC

endymi0n wrote: post #30

aidenn0 wrote: post #20

I've seen it suggested elsewhere that there is no saturation point, it's just that the relationship is logarithmic, and truncated logarithmic datasets look asymptotic.

You‘re probably referring to this research: https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/05/daily-... ...which by the way I find extremely plausible, just judging by the fact that most of our senses (hearing volume & frequency, light intensity, etc.) are perceived in a logarithmic way. That being said, my personal opinion is that money does not make people happy, but it definitely prevents a lot of causes of un…

> That being said, my personal opinion is that money does not make people happy, but it definitely prevents a lot of causes of unhappiness.

I generally have found this to be a tautology. Being less unhappy means being more happy. In fact, I've found that being content with things has improved my happiness significantly.

It's not just about maximizing every positive experience, but minifying the negatives as well.

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#57

Post by antisthenes » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 10:40 PM UTC

monkeyfoop wrote: post #16

CodeCube wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

depends on how that person got to making 500k or more ... they could be working like crazy, and taken out tons of loans to give their family a fancy life, thus being miserable and stressed out (golden handcuffs) ;)

It is true that massive debt could do that. However, it depends on what the debt is for. If the debt is for a huge mortgage owning a 10 unit apartment building, but you are making a couple hundred bucks a month in net profit... then you do not feel pressure as compared to someone who took out a 30k loan to build a swimming pool. These discussions about "income" are so skewed towards a certain type of income, namely w…

They're skewed towards wage income, because that's how the majority of people in this country make their living, so it's automatically more relevant.

Just because 1-2% of people make their ends meet with their wealth working for them doesn't mean their presence requires them to be represented with equal weight in research.

Not sure how this isn't self-evident to you.

> The people conducting these studies have their own biases: justifying taking other people's wealth via forceful means such as taxes.

Uh-huh. Taxes are theft, government is bad? Are you sure you're not the one with the biases?

Re: How much money do people need to be happy?

#58

Post by criley2 » Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 10:40 PM UTC

_dark_matter_ wrote: post #19

howeyc wrote: post #17

Kind of makes sense to me, once you get to a point where you're set. That is you can easily afford the main things (housing, food), plus the extras (electronics, vacations, hobbies) you need a much larger income to "move the needle" so to speak. You still need to work 40 hours a week or whatever, and only get X weeks of vacation. Having a 180K salary instead of 150K doesn't change any of these obligations, or change…

There are still lots of QOL improvements to be made above, say, $150k. It may depend a lot on if you have kids and where you live. This is especially true when compounded with typical retirement savings and kid expenses. For example: - Housekeepers who come often - Paying someone to manage the yard - Private school and college funds for kids - International vacations for the whole family - Paying for family to visit…

The normal explanation is that the happiness derived per dollar decreases with every dollar.

The idea being that a couple making $200k jointly per year spending $800/mo on a maid gives them far, far less happiness than a homeless person getting their first warm meal and shower this month.