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Effect of Low-Fat vs. Low-Carb Diet on 12-Month Weight Loss in Overweight Adults

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Re: Effect of Low-Fat vs. Low-Carb Diet on 12-Month Weight Loss in Overweight Adults

#51
post #10

Low-Carb proponents don't necessarily disagree that 'a calorie is a calorie' in the physics sense. We just feel there's no need to be hungry when you can eat to satiation and still lose weight, and that unnecessarily high glucose in the bloodstream is not good for you anyway.

Complex carbs like potatoes are some of the most satiating and nutritious foods you can eat: https://scottabelfitness.com/potato-and-the-satiety-index/ High fat diets can also be satiating but there are a lot of downsides to eating saturated fats, which make up most of the fats in the typical keto/paleo high fat diet. https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-saturated-fat-studies-s...

I guess it depends on how a potato is prepared. The guy in the link eats baked potatoes which I suppose would be pretty filling. Personally I've found most 'filling' foods I eat when (trying to get back to) low-carbing are: cauliflower, eggs, paneer (a type of Desi cheese), coconut, and beans/legumes.

Re: Effect of Low-Fat vs. Low-Carb Diet on 12-Month Weight Loss in Overweight Adults

#52
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complex carbs like potatoes are some of the most satiating and nutritious foods you can eat: https://scottabelfitness.com/potato-and-the-satiety-index/ High fat diets can also be satiating but there are a lot of downsides to eating saturated fats, which make up most of the fats in the typical keto/paleo high fat diet. https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-saturated-fat-studies-s...

I guess it depends on how a potato is prepared. The guy in the link eats baked potatoes which I suppose would be pretty filling. Personally I've found most 'filling' foods I eat when (trying to get back to) low-carbing are: cauliflower, eggs, paneer (a type of Desi cheese), coconut, and beans/legumes.

Boiling potatoes provides the best glycemic profile. Letting them cool before you eat them increases the amount of resistant starch further:

https://yurielkaim.com/resistant-starch/

Legumes are a very healthy food on a lot of counts.

Re: Effect of Low-Fat vs. Low-Carb Diet on 12-Month Weight Loss in Overweight Adults

#53

I wonder which of the two is easier to keep. Feeling hungry most of the time is little joy and leads to relapses.

Oh but. . . "weak willpower", and "immorality", and "fat people deserve their misery and shame". . . we really need to maintain our comfortable mindset.

Re: Effect of Low-Fat vs. Low-Carb Diet on 12-Month Weight Loss in Overweight Adults

#54
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So all food/non-food is useful to the body in the same way? Just so long as you burn it off? Is all energy expenditure by the human body the same?

Micronutrients, obviously not. You have to get your required vitamins and minerals etc. or you'll get sick. But for macronutrients (basically carbs/fats) then yes, basically. Maybe you'll be slightly more or less efficient with some types of food, but in the end, if you eat a calorie you have to burn a calorie or you'll put on weight. The key factor is to realise that it's relative to your body . Maybe for you, perso…

What if you're gaining fat instead of muscle? I think your version only works if the only metric required is purely -Kg over time, and doesn't factor in anything else that people might want to call it 'healthy weight loss/gain.'

Re: Effect of Low-Fat vs. Low-Carb Diet on 12-Month Weight Loss in Overweight Adults

#55
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Micronutrients, obviously not. You have to get your required vitamins and minerals etc. or you'll get sick. But for macronutrients (basically carbs/fats) then yes, basically. Maybe you'll be slightly more or less efficient with some types of food, but in the end, if you eat a calorie you have to burn a calorie or you'll put on weight. The key factor is to realise that it's relative to your body . Maybe for you, perso…

What if you're gaining fat instead of muscle? I think your version only works if the only metric required is purely -Kg over time, and doesn't factor in anything else that people might want to call it 'healthy weight loss/gain.'

OK, so which goalposts would you like us to aim for here? If you want to be healthy, eat a balanced diet. If you want weight loss, then eat less food than you burn, using a feedback loop to adjust our dietary intake. If you want fitness, do some cardio. If you want strength, lift some weights. If you want all of these things, then do all of these things.

Re: Effect of Low-Fat vs. Low-Carb Diet on 12-Month Weight Loss in Overweight Adults

#56
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that protein should be consumed instead of carbs couldbe due to them being equally insulinogenic to most 'complex' carbs, while also being the building blocks of muscle (rather than being stored on the body as glycogen). While I don't doubt that porridge, all-bran, and muesli enact a lesser insulin response, I'd rather eat the steak, which still beat out nearly all other carbs. As a side-note, it would be in…

Eating too much protein is not healthy. And most Americans eat way more than the recommended amount: https://www.healthline.com/health/too-much-protein#risks You're also getting saturated fat and cholesterol with the steak, which is unhealthy despite recent efforts of some to cloud the issue.

If you want me to take the claim that "a high protein diet is unhealthy" seriously, then you're going to have to provide something better than that article.

"Weight Gain" due to increased protein consumption is disputed[1]. In fact the premise itself can be disputed just by noting that weight gain can present itself in the form of muscle gain.

Bad breath: ...really?

Constipation: "This is because high-protein diets that restrict carbohydrates are typically low in fiber." I'm sorry, but why do high protein diets need to be low in fiber? That doesn't make any sense at all - any diet can be low in fiber if you don't eat fiber.

Diarrhea: Author provides no source.

Dehydration and Kidney damage: Both prevented by drinking enough water.

Increased cancer risk: The issue with these studies is that they don't provide necessary controls. Most people who eat red meat regularly are not doing HIIT, strength training, or going for walks. They are not eating their red meat on a bed of spinach. They are eating it between two buns and with a side of steamy fries (which are known to cause cancer[2]). If we look at the actual mechanisms for carcinogenicity, we find that eating veggies, not burning your food, and not eating cured meats, are probably as likely to keep you cancer free than switching your steak to a super whole-grain diet. Don't forget to also have a healthy gut, which prevents colon cancer[3]

Saturated Fat / Heart Disease / cholesterol: Again, no long term studies have had the right controls in place to conclude that Saturated fat, in the absence of unhealthy carbs/meats, are actually harmful. Only 20% of the cholesterol in our bodies actually comes from our food. Saturated vs nonsaturated is a debate being waged between actual RDs. It's not just "an effort to cloud an issue".

Calcium Loss: Actually, more Americans experience calcium loss as a result of NOT getting enough protein. "Despite a widely held belief that high-protein diets (especially diets high in animal protein) result in bone resorption and increased urinary calcium, higher protein diets are actually associated with greater bone mass and fewer fractures when calcium intake is adequate. Perhaps more concern should be focused on increasing the intake of alkalinizing fruits and vegetables rather than reducing protein sources." [4]

Whether high fat and protein vs high carb low fat is "better", is going to remain debated until the end of time, because studies repeatedly show discrepancies. The fact is humans from different geographies have evolved over time to accommodate different diets. This is why we see things like lactose intolerance concentrated in some regions but devoid in others [5]. Imagine ALL of the other mechanisms for body health and how they have evolved over time in different regions, and consider how silly it is to attempt to expose those which are harmful using broad studies with poor controls over only certain populations - while ignoring the underlying mechanisms for the actual harm.

[1]https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-016-...

[2]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4780226/

[3]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26286349

[4]https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/87/5/1567S/4650438

[5]https://www.foodbeast.com/news/map-of-milk-consumption-lacto...

Re: Effect of Low-Fat vs. Low-Carb Diet on 12-Month Weight Loss in Overweight Adults

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

calorie intake and expenditure is a description not a prescription . this is about as useful as saying "make more money than you spend" in order to become wealthy. sure, that's true, but it won't help you make $10 million. how do you eliminate the desire to waste time and money on useless pursuits? that is the analogy we need to use to reframe this discussion. yes, there is a certain level of maturity and self-contro…

Meat and animal protein is actually more insulinogenic than many common carbohydrates. https://www.drcarney.com/blog/entry/low-carb-theory-regardin... Pretty much everybody agrees that eating a lot of sugar or processed simple carbs is a bad idea but the demonization of high fiber, complex carbs has no basis in science.

Isn't this why ketogenic diets also limit protein? I think you're right that if someone is eating a low-carb diet but also eating excessive protein, they wouldn't be adhering to an insulin-based theory.

Ketogenic diets seem best understood as diets that put fat intake as high as possible. Some protein intake is necessary, to obtain essential amino acids, but ideally not more than that. Carb intake can almost entirely be eliminated, because there are no essential carbs, and plant consumption can focus on low-carb plants (e.g. nuts, leafy greens).

I don't mean to endorse ketogenic diets, since I don't know whether they work. But they're at least internally consistent provided protein intake is also limited.

Re: Effect of Low-Fat vs. Low-Carb Diet on 12-Month Weight Loss in Overweight Adults

#58

>>In the HLF vs HLC diets, respectively, the mean 12-month macronutrient distributions were 48% vs 30% for carbohydrates, 29% vs 45% for fat, and 21% vs 23% for protein. 30% carbs is hardly "low-carb". Indeed, most low-carb diets suggest 50g or less carbs per day - 200 calories or less. https://www.dietdoctor.com/how-low-carb-is-low-carb edit: why am I being downvoted?

50g is still high. Most people in low-carb communities talk about "low carb" as being under 20 grams per day.

Re: Effect of Low-Fat vs. Low-Carb Diet on 12-Month Weight Loss in Overweight Adults

#59

>>In the HLF vs HLC diets, respectively, the mean 12-month macronutrient distributions were 48% vs 30% for carbohydrates, 29% vs 45% for fat, and 21% vs 23% for protein. 30% carbs is hardly "low-carb". Indeed, most low-carb diets suggest 50g or less carbs per day - 200 calories or less. https://www.dietdoctor.com/how-low-carb-is-low-carb edit: why am I being downvoted?

50g is still high. Most people in low-carb communities talk about "low carb" as being under 20 grams per day.

Ketogenic is under 20g per day; low-carb is usually <100g.

Re: Effect of Low-Fat vs. Low-Carb Diet on 12-Month Weight Loss in Overweight Adults

#60
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eating too much protein is not healthy. And most Americans eat way more than the recommended amount: https://www.healthline.com/health/too-much-protein#risks You're also getting saturated fat and cholesterol with the steak, which is unhealthy despite recent efforts of some to cloud the issue.

If you want me to take the claim that "a high protein diet is unhealthy" seriously, then you're going to have to provide something better than that article. "Weight Gain" due to increased protein consumption is disputed[1]. In fact the premise itself can be disputed just by noting that weight gain can present itself in the form of muscle gain. Bad breath: ...really? Constipation: "This is because high-protein diets t…

The dangers of excessive protein intake are very well documented. A simple Google search turns up so many references. Here's one from the Mayo clinic:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h...

Saturated fat intake has been shown to boost serum cholesterol and increase risk of CVD in literally hundreds of direct feeding mechanistic trials. Genetic variability of cholesterol is high enough that cross-sectional studies are not appropriate for studying this.

https://nutritionfacts.org/2016/10/04/how-to-design-saturate...

In other words, ingesting saturated fat and cholesterol will raise your cholesterol levels and increase your risk of CVD but your baseline risk depends a lot on your genes.

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