Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What May Be U.S.’s First Drone-Linked Aircraft Crash Is Being Investigated

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 73 posts

Re: What May Be U.S.’s First Drone-Linked Aircraft Crash Is Being Investigated

#51

Post by DoreenMichele »

huffpopo wrote: post #50
huffpopo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helicopters are slow, and they probably didn't have the rotor speed needed to yank the collective. Hitting a 2kg drone would result in expensive repairs, e.g. $30K for replacement rotor blades and you still might crash. I probably would have taken the hit but I'm much better off than the average R22 pilot who often operate or razor thin margins. That said; my bet is that there was no drone. My guess is the student ma…

I'm curios on the 10+ downvotes this received since posting; would someone care to give me a reason. Thx

I did not down vote. My guess is the mudslinging:

My guess is the student made a small mistake, the teacher took over and made a bigger mistake, and both want to keep their jobs/future carers. Drones make an easy target to lie about and are hated anyway.

Re: What May Be U.S.’s First Drone-Linked Aircraft Crash Is Being Investigated

#52

Post by dredmorbius »

wvenable wrote: post #40
newdayrising wrote: post #23

I've been wondering this for a long time - what's to stop a terrorist from flying and attaching a drone with an explosive payload to a large commercial flight? Especially at night while the plane is taxiing?

The weight of the payload.

A few ounces of shaped charge at altitude would likely lead to explosive decompression.

At lower altitude, less impact, though it would still be problematic.

Keeping the charge on the target aircraft whilst it climbed to cruising height is likely the hard part.

Re: What May Be U.S.’s First Drone-Linked Aircraft Crash Is Being Investigated

#53

Post by huffpopo »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #51
huffpopo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curios on the 10+ downvotes this received since posting; would someone care to give me a reason. Thx

I did not down vote. My guess is the mudslinging: My guess is the student made a small mistake, the teacher took over and made a bigger mistake, and both want to keep their jobs/future carers. Drones make an easy target to lie about and are hated anyway.

Ah, I consider them human with human faults and incentives. One really sad aspect is that a major killer of helicopter pilots is cutting corners on preventative maintenance in order to save money. I feel like we need to be honest on what people are like.

Re: What May Be U.S.’s First Drone-Linked Aircraft Crash Is Being Investigated

#54

Post by DrScump »

huffpopo wrote: post #50
huffpopo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helicopters are slow, and they probably didn't have the rotor speed needed to yank the collective. Hitting a 2kg drone would result in expensive repairs, e.g. $30K for replacement rotor blades and you still might crash. I probably would have taken the hit but I'm much better off than the average R22 pilot who often operate or razor thin margins. That said; my bet is that there was no drone. My guess is the student ma…

I'm curios on the 10+ downvotes this received since posting; would someone care to give me a reason. Thx

I suspect that filing a false report with the NTSB would be a crime, in which case you'd be accusing the crew of breaking the law, perhaps even perjury.

Re: What May Be U.S.’s First Drone-Linked Aircraft Crash Is Being Investigated

#55

Post by GiorgioG »

cma wrote: post #48
GiorgioG wrote: post #12

They were flying in a remote area, low to the ground. If it wasn't by an airport and below 400 feet, I'm not sure there was any wrong-doing on the drone's part. Sometimes they're called 'accidents' aka s * happens.

They weren't flying in a remote area. It was a small island with a big residential development.

Maybe my reading comprehension skills fail me but here's what the article says:

"In the Charleston incident, the student was practicing low-altitude hovering in a remote area, according to the police report. As she turned the aircraft around to continue the lesson, a small white drone appeared, the instructor told police."

Re: What May Be U.S.’s First Drone-Linked Aircraft Crash Is Being Investigated

#56

Post by DoreenMichele »

huffpopo wrote: post #53
DoreenMichele wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not down vote. My guess is the mudslinging: My guess is the student made a small mistake, the teacher took over and made a bigger mistake, and both want to keep their jobs/future carers. Drones make an easy target to lie about and are hated anyway.

Ah, I consider them human with human faults and incentives. One really sad aspect is that a major killer of helicopter pilots is cutting corners on preventative maintenance in order to save money. I feel like we need to be honest on what people are like.

When making such points, it usually helps to talk about the systemic or situational factors pressuring people to do such things and to frame it as one plausible explanation that fits the scenario as presented rather than as an accusation.

You need to be very careful about making public accusations (or sounding like you are). That can seriously harm people's careers and lives.

Re: What May Be U.S.’s First Drone-Linked Aircraft Crash Is Being Investigated

#57

Post by jsjohnst »

wavefunction wrote: post #14
bri3d wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was making an unfair inference about the pilot's mental state, so I removed it. With that being said I still strongly question the relation of the drone to the crash physically and believe the effect of the drone on the pilot's decision-making is the interesting part of this story. Landing as an evasive maneuver doesn't make a lot of sense to me and the actual cause of the crash seems to be a situational awareness…

The fact is that the operation of drones is legally prohibited in certain ways to avoid any chance of drones and aircraft intercepting each other in flight. Whoever the operator of the drone is, they are wholly responsible for illegal operation of their drone and the results thereafter.

> Whoever the operator of the drone is, they are wholly responsible for illegal operation of their drone and the results thereafter.

Absolutely correct in a general sense.

In this story though, it’s not exactly clear who is at fault though with the details given.

- Helicopter was doing hovering drills

This means they were below 400ft

- Crash occurred in a remote area per article

This implies they were not near an airport, but it’s inconclusive based on the article alone. It’s entirely possible the DJI pilot was flying on his/her own land.

- both instructor and student said they saw the drone

Doesn’t indicate how far away the drone was however. I have a feeling though either the quadcopter pilot was either flying FPV (aka in violation of the line of sight rule) or wasn’t giving appropriate clearance to the helicopter, so ultimately they could partially be at fault.

Overall, it seems to me the root cause was the instructor overreacting. The instructor should’ve landed the helicopter if they didn’t have situational awareness enough to know a tree was nearby.

Replace “drone” with any other object in the air (say a kite flown by a kid or a bird or whatever) and would you have the same “blame goes to the other party, not instructor” perspective?

Re: What May Be U.S.’s First Drone-Linked Aircraft Crash Is Being Investigated

#58

Post by jsjohnst »

newdayrising wrote: post #23

I've been wondering this for a long time - what's to stop a terrorist from flying and attaching a drone with an explosive payload to a large commercial flight? Especially at night while the plane is taxiing?

The fact most drones have a very small lift capacity is the biggest issue.

As to how to stop it, it’s just like any other terrorist attack. SIGINT is the main tool.

Re: What May Be U.S.’s First Drone-Linked Aircraft Crash Is Being Investigated

#59

Post by jsjohnst »

craftyguy wrote: post #25
newdayrising wrote: post #23

I've been wondering this for a long time - what's to stop a terrorist from flying and attaching a drone with an explosive payload to a large commercial flight? Especially at night while the plane is taxiing?

Nothing, apparently. I wonder though if it would be large enough to be picked up by the radar used at most airports to track planes on the ground.

All of the consumer grade drones (aka ones under $2,500) don’t show up on radar. They are too small and don’t have enough radar reflecting substances (think about a typical airframe, the motors and battery are the only really metallic parts of any size and they are still very very small compared to any aircraft).

Re: What May Be U.S.’s First Drone-Linked Aircraft Crash Is Being Investigated

#60

Post by jsjohnst »

dredmorbius wrote: post #52
wvenable wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weight of the payload.

A few ounces of shaped charge at altitude would likely lead to explosive decompression. At lower altitude, less impact, though it would still be problematic. Keeping the charge on the target aircraft whilst it climbed to cruising height is likely the hard part.

Many consumer grade drones can’t fly high enough to get to an altitude where “explosive decompression” would be an issue. 5k ft is pretty doable, 10k ft is unlikely, 15k+ altitude is basically not tangible currently.
Post reply on HN