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Telegram has raised an initial $850M for its billion-dollar ICO

techcrunch.com

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Re: Telegram has raised an initial $850M for its billion-dollar ICO

#51

Post by prostoalex »

jjeaff wrote: post #25
ggg9990 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. government has a set of laws that govern what “shares” in a US-listed company mean. If Google’s management tries to completely nullify what equity ownership means, the US government will go and take it back. They will freeze the founders assets. They will ground the company aircraft. They will send scary men with big guns to make arrests of people indicted by a grand jury. Those things are pretty hard to get…

IRS, FTC, or SEC raids? Fraud is fraud whether it is in equity shares or ico magic money. Granted, equities are much better monitored and regulated, but if they steal from investors through the ico, they will likely face similar enforcement.

It’s only fraud if the promises of the contract have been broken. Nowhere in their whitepaper they equate a token with a right to receive dividend or to claim a share of the company’s assets in the event of a sale.

Re: Telegram has raised an initial $850M for its billion-dollar ICO

#52

Post by prostoalex »

biztos wrote: post #48
panarky wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no product yet, they're selling the tokens that will be used in future products. When we finally find use cases that make cryptoassets relevant to regular people for routine activities, then the skeptics will understand that there's more going on here than just tulips and Ponzis. Telegram has real potential to do that, it just takes some imagination to see what it could be.

Given that nobody has found those use cases yet, why do so many people assume they exist?

Well, investing such cryptoassets into other cryptoassets as well as hodl’ing those cryptoassets are two robust everyday use cases.

Re: Telegram has raised an initial $850M for its billion-dollar ICO

#53

Post by prostoalex »

runeks wrote: post #37

The inherent issue with ICOs is pricing. Buying tokens, which can be exchanged for a service at an unknown ratio (price), amounts to financing a new fast food chain by buying a million tokens for $1,000, where the tokens can be used to purchase hamburgers once the chain opens. The problem is that you have no idea if those million tokens — once the chain is up and running — will buy a thousand hamburgers or three. So…

It’s launching an airline by pre-selling miles. Sure, you might have 1,000,000 miles and Platinum status on that new airline, the boarding passes are on the blockchain, but the airline gets to control the mile redemption rates and status privileges for that Platinum level.

Re: Telegram has raised an initial $850M for its billion-dollar ICO

#54

Post by atomical »

dmoy wrote: post #28
jjeaff wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I own shares of Google, there are two methods of earning money. Appreciating of the stock or dividend payments for my share of profits. ICO only offers me the speculation part.

GP may have selected GOOG because it does not pay a dividend (like BRK.A).

Are you saying BRK.A pays a dividend?

Re: Telegram has raised an initial $850M for its billion-dollar ICO

#55

Post by beefield »

firasd wrote: post #7
firefoxd wrote: post #4

Maybe I'm the last to join the party but if i understand correctly, is this money they are going to receive as investment? I ask because as much as i can google I can't find any product they are selling or any ad they are displaying, so what is being bought here? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, is there something i am missing?

Presumably they will use the tokens in the app for payments and a way to run decentralized applications (so paying for computation, storage, etc.) What's being sold is the potential for the token price to appreciate in value. It's definitely a worse deal for investors than an IPO as there is no equity being sold.

Apologies if I ask stupid questions, but can someone explain me the relationhsip between the tokens created in ICO and ethereum (or bitcoin)?

I mean, are these new tokens completely indpendent (economical) entities with no connection to the value of other cryptocurrencies, or do they somehow derive value from ethereum?

To put this in practical terms, if I want to raise money via an ICO and promise that you can use a token in one year's time to buy USD100 worth of gadgets from me, is that doable without anyone taking any risk on the fluctuation of value of cryptocurrencies?

Re: Telegram has raised an initial $850M for its billion-dollar ICO

#57

Post by davidgrenier »

This is going to be an interesting fiasco, chewing ever more on the shaky public trust. The layman still getting in on this stuff makes it so private investors can liquidate their worthless investment at a premium, the former won't learn before the later does.

Re: Telegram has raised an initial $850M for its billion-dollar ICO

#59

Post by pofjer »

swsieber wrote: post #32
panarky wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no product yet, they're selling the tokens that will be used in future products. When we finally find use cases that make cryptoassets relevant to regular people for routine activities, then the skeptics will understand that there's more going on here than just tulips and Ponzis. Telegram has real potential to do that, it just takes some imagination to see what it could be.

Small nit: Until we finally find use cases that make cryptocurrencies relevant to regular people there's nothing more going on here than Tulips and Ponzis.

unless

Re: Telegram has raised an initial $850M for its billion-dollar ICO

#60

Post by wepple »

beefield wrote: post #55
firasd wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably they will use the tokens in the app for payments and a way to run decentralized applications (so paying for computation, storage, etc.) What's being sold is the potential for the token price to appreciate in value. It's definitely a worse deal for investors than an IPO as there is no equity being sold.

Apologies if I ask stupid questions, but can someone explain me the relationhsip between the tokens created in ICO and ethereum (or bitcoin)? I mean, are these new tokens completely indpendent (economical) entities with no connection to the value of other cryptocurrencies, or do they somehow derive value from ethereum? To put this in practical terms, if I want to raise money via an ICO and promise that you can use a…

The new tokens are completely independent of other tokens. Buying at ICO, you’re acquiring tokens that you hope will have value once the system is up and running.

I’m sure you could do that somehow, but I don’t believe anyone has done it.

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