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Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

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Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#51

Post by danieltillett »

oceanghost wrote: post #28
danieltillett wrote: post #4

99% of the perfectionists I have had the misfortune to work with are just slow or out of their depth and are using the term as an emotional crutch. How much nicer it is to tell yourself that you are a perfectionist than you are just not very good at whatever you are doing. The people that turn out near perfect work are usually the fastest and just get things done. It is a pity they are so rare.

That's funny, most of the people I've worked with don't appreciate the value of slow, methodical, thorough work. They lack the ability to predict failure scenarios and predict how small changes will cascade in a system and cause undesired behavior. Therefore the time taken seems wasted to them when in fact they frequently don't understand. There's room for both types of people in the world, but only one should call t…

There is absolutely nothing wrong with slow, methodical and thorough work when the task calls for it. The problem is most self-described perfectionists are neither able to identify when it is needed, nor provide the corresponding quality when required.

Those that know do, those that don’t perfect.

Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#52

Post by maldusiecle »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #39
maldusiecle wrote: post #17

I'm really skeptical of this attitude. In a lot of fields I've seen people who commit themselves to "just getting it done." The result is that they do get a lot of work done: and it's bad, it's mediocre, it doesn't have value. On the other hand, one can easily think of creators who spent a long time on one work (maybe "too much" time), and the result was work of lasting value. Of course, this relates more to artistic…

I think you’re missing a few things: 1. Many great artists were extremely prolific and created lots of mediocre work, we just forget about those. There seem to be very few perfectionists who just created a few great works, not “releasing” them until they were perfect. There are some, but they’re the exception. 2. You’re also not seeing all the many perfectionists who waited until things were perfect and then never fi…

Sure. You need a balance, and creating flawed works is a part of the process--I wouldn't deny that. But creating work after work, for the sake of creating, doesn't necessarily lead to better work; going through the slow process of refinement, revision, and self-criticism, is necessary. There's a saying that music teachers often repeat, which is that practice doesn't maker perfect, practice makes permanent. You have to step back and think about what you're doing, and that does mean sacrificing "productivity," at least for a while.

Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#53

Post by lhnz »

hinkley wrote: post #29
lhnz wrote: post #24

Obsessing over minutiae won't help you to see the bigger picture. I think it's important to show your work early, in order that others can feedback. It's very easy to perfectly create something but to make some fundamental miss-step with the overall design.

Obsessing over minutiae won't help you to see the bigger picture. You can paint Get’er done people with that brush too. Efficiently producing wrong code helps nobody but yourself. There are flavors of good engineering that allow the team to maintain velocity year over year. Too often those techniques get thrown under the perfectionism bus and then later the team blames “bad luck” [edit or ‘stupid people’ not them] fo…

This misinterprets what I'm saying. Which is: people that focus on perfection are too often working diligently on their own, sweating details which are unimportant to the quality of the outcome.

I frequently meet people that believe themselves to be 'perfectionists' but whom create poor quality work due to a reluctance to let other see their work before it is 'done'.

In order to get perfection, you need to be doing the right thing. In order to do the right thing, you cannot be working within a bubble.

Edit: I think everybody read things into what I said which weren't there. "Look an anti-perfectionist! He must be against quality work. Little does he realise that we can be faster by focusing on 'perfection'." This is true but you need to make sure that you are not adding finesse to the wrong solution!

Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#54

Post by kaybe »

ohazi wrote: post #40

Many of the most intelligent and capable people I know suffer from impostor syndrome to some degree. It can vary from worrying that you might not be as good as your peers, to being afraid to release something because you're worried it's not perfect yet, to a paralyzing inability to start, because you're stuck in a mental loop overthinking dependencies and prerequisites. Smart people spend lots of time learning, think…

I am at my best when I don't really care too much about being good. Sadly this is hard to impossible to force.

Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#55

Post by fwdpropaganda »

rconti wrote: post #46
danieltillett wrote: post #4

99% of the perfectionists I have had the misfortune to work with are just slow or out of their depth and are using the term as an emotional crutch. How much nicer it is to tell yourself that you are a perfectionist than you are just not very good at whatever you are doing. The people that turn out near perfect work are usually the fastest and just get things done. It is a pity they are so rare.

99% of people who rant against perfectionism don't understand how wholly perfectionism takes over your thought process and that people who suffer from perfectionism are not characterized by "perfect" finished products, or even necessarily describing themselves as such. Rather, it can be a crippling subconscious mindset that inhibits productivity, creativity, and learning. In other words, the "causes" you identify in…

I say that if you really were perfectionist you would deliver. If it's not delivered you can't really call it perfect.

Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#56

Post by lemonberry »

danschumann wrote: post #36

Lately I've been doing tasks from easiest to hardest. I no longer seem like a perfectionist. Let me explain... I used to do whatever I felt like, and typically, I was doing the hardest tasks first. I would leave the little stuff. "Oh that's easy, I can just do that at the end". Creating social media accounts was the last thing on my TODO list. One day, I thought I'd apply Dave Ramseys "Pay off your debts smallest to…

If I remember correctly, David Allen, of 'Getting Things Done' fame, makes a similar argument: if it can be done in 5 mins or less do it now rather than defer.

I've definitely noticed the benefit of this. On the other hand, small things add up and occasionally I've just got to tackle that 5 hour task.

Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#57

Post by sheepmullet »

danschumann wrote: post #36

Lately I've been doing tasks from easiest to hardest. I no longer seem like a perfectionist. Let me explain... I used to do whatever I felt like, and typically, I was doing the hardest tasks first. I would leave the little stuff. "Oh that's easy, I can just do that at the end". Creating social media accounts was the last thing on my TODO list. One day, I thought I'd apply Dave Ramseys "Pay off your debts smallest to…

I find ordering tasks easiest to hardest can also be a trap - often you can go days or even weeks without working on your most important work. It is a kind of false productivity.

I managed to do this for about a year while working on my thesis. I finally realised I wasn't making any forward progress.

I find 1 or 2 quick tasks then straight to the most valuable work is a good way to get the momentum going.

Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#58

Post by ralmeida »

louwrentius wrote: post #42

If you consider your work a 1.0 then you accept 'shortcomings'. It's important that you are able to deliver that 1.0 and that despite its shortcomings, it does what it was supposed to do and value is derived from it (in the broadest sense possible). The real value is in knowing what is important and what is not. The real value is to be able to make sane tradeoffs within a particular context. That is how to get things…

Not surprisingly, repeating to yourself “it’s just your first draft” is one of the tools mentioned in the book The Now Habit, which treats procastination as a symptom of an anxiety problem possibly caused by a perfectionism complex. Other comments in this thread have also mentioned the book.

Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#59

Post by soared »

curiousgal wrote: post #11
frading wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ha, that's not exactly what I mean in this post, I hope that's not what you would take away. (although you might just be sarcastic) What leads us to perfect our work (and prevents us from shipping) is hopefully not an ego problem. It's just that we might be too eager to keep improving it, instead of enjoying the current state. It's just like the belief that adding yet another feature to an app will solve everything.

http://explosm.net/comics/3433/

Also in song form! 998 good bricks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep6WVKEuk24

Re: Being a perfectionist is an obstacle and how to beat it

#60

Post by shmerl »

danieltillett wrote: post #4

99% of the perfectionists I have had the misfortune to work with are just slow or out of their depth and are using the term as an emotional crutch. How much nicer it is to tell yourself that you are a perfectionist than you are just not very good at whatever you are doing. The people that turn out near perfect work are usually the fastest and just get things done. It is a pity they are so rare.

> The people that turn out near perfect work are usually the fastest

The fastest results can be half cooked, when reduced time comes at the cost of shortcuts and trade offs taken. It's all the matter of balance.

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