Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Driving a "Green car" vs cycling

aviewfromthecyclepath.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 72 posts

Re: Driving a "Green car" vs cycling

#51

Post by mstaoru »

IgorPartola wrote: post #7

No car is ever going to be as green as a bicycle. Forget cars. A motorcycle is probably the smallest powered vehicle that is street legal. Smallest one still will weigh at least 250lb. Moving just that mass alone, you’ve blown your energy budget vs a bicycle. Oh I suppose you could argue about the environmental cost of producing the extra calories consumed by the cyclist. Growing and transporting that grass fed steak…

In China, most people ride something like this: http://www.niu.com/ - small affordable (usually in $100-300 range) electric scooters that typically use 48V 20Ah batteries for a 70-80km distance. From the Niu stats, it seems like it uses about 1.1kWh/100km (in electricity), compared to a bicycle that uses about 3.1kWh/100km (in food energy, source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_transport...). If the electricity produced in a "clean" way, it seems that riding an electric scooter is quite green even compared to biking.

Of course, biking has a bunch of other advantages: sport and exercise, unlimited range, transportability, not mentioning mountain biking etc.

Re: Driving a "Green car" vs cycling

#53

Post by IgorPartola »

npsimons wrote: post #15
IgorPartola wrote: post #7

No car is ever going to be as green as a bicycle. Forget cars. A motorcycle is probably the smallest powered vehicle that is street legal. Smallest one still will weigh at least 250lb. Moving just that mass alone, you’ve blown your energy budget vs a bicycle. Oh I suppose you could argue about the environmental cost of producing the extra calories consumed by the cyclist. Growing and transporting that grass fed steak…

> Oh I suppose you could argue about the environmental cost of producing the extra calories consumed by the cyclist. The human body is very efficient. I'd be extremely surprised if my 15 minute bicycle commute to work burned more than 100 calories on top of my BMR. There's just no comparison. > I guess all you valley dwellers should probably cycle to work to save the planet for us all. We will applaud you from our AW…

I used to work with someone in Boston who cycled to work every day no matter the weather. It was a real loss to her department when she was out for a year due to two broke wrists after an accident. I also had the mispleasure of seeing a cyclist hit by a train. I commend the people that do it at great personal bodily risk.

Re: Driving a "Green car" vs cycling

#54

Post by Franciscouzo »

badminton1 wrote: post #21

Even a car that produces no emissions would still pollute. How? by lifting dust on the floor, aka airborne dust or particulate matter. In cities with no street cleaning, this amounts to a large amount of pollution.

Isn't most of the dangerous dust particles a by-product of car emissions? I don't think dirt would that dangerous anyway (obviating asthma).

Re: Driving a "Green car" vs cycling

#55

Post by badminton1 »

Franciscouzo wrote: post #54
badminton1 wrote: post #21

Even a car that produces no emissions would still pollute. How? by lifting dust on the floor, aka airborne dust or particulate matter. In cities with no street cleaning, this amounts to a large amount of pollution.

Isn't most of the dangerous dust particles a by-product of car emissions? I don't think dirt would that dangerous anyway (obviating asthma).

Most comes from emissions, yes.

But most emissions may not come from cars, that distribution depends on the city.

Some cities allow wood fueled appliances, some cities allow burning trash, some cities have a strong industrial presence, some cities have coal thermal power plants, etc.

Re: Driving a "Green car" vs cycling

#56

Post by garyrichardson »

Articles like this are the cyclist equivalent of pro vegan propoganda. It's all doom and gloom and tilted towards a very extremist view with no room for other views or ways of life. Cycle only or you're killing the planet. Eat only plants or you're killing the planet.

How much coal is burned to make your bicycle frame? What about your tires? Were they shipped from somewhere else like China? It's not the same scale as building a car, but it's still not 0 impact.

These extreme cycling articles seem to be written mostly by single men who have nothing better to do than to commute to work. I'd hate to bicycle a weeks worth of groceries home for my 3 kids and wife.

Re: Driving a "Green car" vs cycling

#57

Post by JoeAltmaier »

garyrichardson wrote: post #56

Articles like this are the cyclist equivalent of pro vegan propoganda. It's all doom and gloom and tilted towards a very extremist view with no room for other views or ways of life. Cycle only or you're killing the planet. Eat only plants or you're killing the planet. How much coal is burned to make your bicycle frame? What about your tires? Were they shipped from somewhere else like China? It's not the same scale as…

Worse yet by far - I'd have to double my grocery bill because I'm cycling like a maniac. And groceries have the largest carbon footprint of anything you can do. Its arguably more carbon efficient to drive to work, even a few blocks, than walk or cycle and eat more.

Its foolish to argue. Just use less, recycle more, and we'll have to figure out macroscopic society-level solutions to energy to get out of this alive. Recycling aluminum cans will matter zero in the long run.

Re: Driving a "Green car" vs cycling

#58

Post by fjsolwmv »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #57
garyrichardson wrote: post #56

Articles like this are the cyclist equivalent of pro vegan propoganda. It's all doom and gloom and tilted towards a very extremist view with no room for other views or ways of life. Cycle only or you're killing the planet. Eat only plants or you're killing the planet. How much coal is burned to make your bicycle frame? What about your tires? Were they shipped from somewhere else like China? It's not the same scale as…

Worse yet by far - I'd have to double my grocery bill because I'm cycling like a maniac. And groceries have the largest carbon footprint of anything you can do. Its arguably more carbon efficient to drive to work, even a few blocks, than walk or cycle and eat more. Its foolish to argue. Just use less, recycle more, and we'll have to figure out macroscopic society-level solutions to energy to get out of this alive. Re…

A reminder of the existence of obseity, diabetes, and bicycle motors exposed the force of this argument.

Re: Driving a "Green car" vs cycling

#59

Post by tonyedgecombe »

vinceguidry wrote: post #45

I pay a lot of money for the privilege of being able to conveniently take public transit to work. I'd blame it on Atlanta, but honestly, there is nothing any city could do to make it convenient enough for me to take transit vs. just driving a car if I didn't really want to do it. I drive my car or take an Uber for literally everything that's not going to work or walking. America is just so big and so spread out that…

More than 60% of the US population lives in cities[1], 80% lives in urban areas[2].

[1] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-33.... [2] https://www.citylab.com/equity/2012/03/us-urban-population-w...

The real reason the US doesn't do public transport or cycling well is the huge car industry. The countries that are most successful at this in Europe have almost no car manufacturing.

Re: Driving a "Green car" vs cycling

#60

Post by ZeroGravitas »

jim-greer wrote: post #49
JimboOmega wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of people who would probably bike to work if there was a pleasant bike path between their residence and their work... but that's not a reality. Street cycling - even with bike lanes - can be terrifying, especially for those without experience. In the urban environment cars, trucks, other bicyclists, pedestrians... all operate in a very unpredictable way that frequently forces you to make snap decisions t…

You might consider an electric bike, both for reducing the time and making the uphill return less onerous.

Probably helps with feeling safe in traffic too, since you can keep up with the pace better when necessary and maintain that speed with less effort, leaving more energy and focus for looking out for other road users trying to kill you.
Post reply on HN