Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals • Hacker News Board

Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#51

Post by ImSkeptical » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 7:20 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #19

sethbannon wrote: post #17

Listening to these remarkable recordings, I can't help but think that as time goes on, more and more of the artificial mental barriers we've built between us and non-human animals will fall. I hope with more research humanity stops seeing non-human animals as resources to be exploited but rather as sentient beings to be respected.

Humans presumably are seen as sentient yet [the majority of us?] are being exploited in one way or another: Capitalism has no inbuilt concept of respect. If you meant not exploited for food, that is obviously different. I'm not aware of any humans that do that anymore. Now tell me how you judge sentience?

Why can't we respect human dignity like those communists who murdered and starved tens of millions of people, ruined economies, and consigned countless people to oppression and deprivation?

Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#52

Post by muninn_ » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 7:42 PM UTC

kleer001 wrote: post #43

phreeza wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are elephants higher on the hierarchy than eg pigs?

They're a keystone species, have culture and language (probably older than any human one), they mourn their dead, and on and on...

Apologies for being a bit pedantic, but I had never heard of the phrase 'keystone species' and went on to look it up. While an elephant could be (and perhaps is) a keystone species, I don't find that the status of being such a species is relevant for discussions on consciousness of animals because of what this term actually means and includes. Starfish, for example, could be considered a keystone species.

Not trying to be a jerk or anything (I'm also a vegetarian) but just wanted to bring this up in case anybody else was a bit curious about what the term meant or had maybe heard of the term before and was confused as to why it was included here. I'm also clearly open to a arguments discussing why a keystone species is inherently conscious.

Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#53

Post by kirkules » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 7:47 PM UTC

tormeh wrote: post #50

kingkawn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grimly hilarious that anyone ever thought they couldn’t

Every being with a consciousness must have feelings. Otherwise the consciousness wouldn't know what to do.

That doesn't mean physical pain is necessarily among the feelings felt.

Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#54

Post by blubb-fish » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:01 PM UTC

blondie9x wrote: post #12

Whales are intelligent. They should not be killed by humans who mask the activities as scientific research. Japan is a great country and a leader on many levels. I speak Japanese. I enjoy Japanese food and culture. The people are very kind and considerate. There are some who are concerned if you stop killing whales you must stop killing fish and other forms of sustenance. This is not the case. The difference is whale…

> Whales are intelligent. They should not be killed by humans who mask the activities as scientific research.

Okay, so killing intelligent animals is not okay.

We need an international agreement that every whale has to undergo a little test before being harpooned.

A whale has to be a bit stupid or retarded - then killing is morally justifiable.

Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#55

Post by dboreham » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:02 PM UTC

kleer001 wrote: post #43

phreeza wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are elephants higher on the hierarchy than eg pigs?

They're a keystone species, have culture and language (probably older than any human one), they mourn their dead, and on and on...

Pigs are pretty cool too though.

Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#56

Post by joemi » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:07 PM UTC

ImSkeptical wrote: post #51

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans presumably are seen as sentient yet [the majority of us?] are being exploited in one way or another: Capitalism has no inbuilt concept of respect. If you meant not exploited for food, that is obviously different. I'm not aware of any humans that do that anymore. Now tell me how you judge sentience?

Why can't we respect human dignity like those communists who murdered and starved tens of millions of people, ruined economies, and consigned countless people to oppression and deprivation?

Communism as you're referring to it is not what many supporters of communism (and/or opponents of capitalism) are advocating for.

Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#57

Post by samfriedman » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:13 PM UTC

ikeyany wrote: post #21

sethbannon wrote: post #17

Listening to these remarkable recordings, I can't help but think that as time goes on, more and more of the artificial mental barriers we've built between us and non-human animals will fall. I hope with more research humanity stops seeing non-human animals as resources to be exploited but rather as sentient beings to be respected.

Those barriers are certainly falling. The campaign to end the live boiling of lobsters and crabs [1] is underway due to our findings that crustaceans can feel pain. [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42873644

I remember seeing on cooking shows for at least the past decade that the preferred, humane method of killing a lobster or crab is a swift knife cut through the head.

I had thought that that was the generally accepted method, so I'm surprised that live boiling is still done.

Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#58

Post by lamename » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:18 PM UTC

kingkawn wrote: post #47

ikeyany wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those barriers are certainly falling. The campaign to end the live boiling of lobsters and crabs [1] is underway due to our findings that crustaceans can feel pain. [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-42873644

Grimly hilarious that anyone ever thought they couldn’t

Nociception /= pain

Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#59

Post by coldtea » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:18 PM UTC

tormeh wrote: post #50

kingkawn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grimly hilarious that anyone ever thought they couldn’t

Every being with a consciousness must have feelings. Otherwise the consciousness wouldn't know what to do.

Senses are not the same as what we call feelings. And consciousness can be very basic -- merely responding to sensory input.

Re: Orcas can imitate human speech, research reveals

#60

Post by announcerman » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 8:19 PM UTC

joemi wrote: post #56

ImSkeptical wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't we respect human dignity like those communists who murdered and starved tens of millions of people, ruined economies, and consigned countless people to oppression and deprivation?

Communism as you're referring to it is not what many supporters of communism (and/or opponents of capitalism) are advocating for.

As a citizen of an ex Eastern Bloc country I'd rather not have any other humans co-opt me into another helping of true communism™