Untitled topic • Hacker News Board

Re: undefined

#51

Post by jacobolus » Mon, Apr 14, 2008, 5:48 AM UTC

eb wrote: post #46

cstejerean wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

then why are you commenting?

I find it amusing that this site is so concerned with quality yet when such an obvious troll comes by, you're all blinded by your admiration for pg. Way to feed the trolls. I guess we know what Hacker News' kryptonite is.

The question is, what is an “obvious troll”, and when has it achieved its ends? I would argue that the purpose of “trolling” is to derail an otherwise fruitful discussion or forum, causing it to devolve into pointless flaming. Given that this discussion a) stayed respectful, and b) was generally insightful, I'd say that at best, this was a completely ineffective “troll”.

Re: undefined

#52

Post by skmurphy » Mon, Apr 14, 2008, 6:11 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #49

This is such a classic troll. Not even a subtle new variant, but practically a 1980s Usenet troll. I was going to ask if people minded if I killed it, but a forum just can't let itself be pwned by trolls this blatant. So...

It's provocative, but gets to an issue at the core of YC and HN. If you lead with the quality of your ideas, which I believe that you do, then it's a useful conversation.

Re: undefined

#53

Post by gruseom » Mon, Apr 14, 2008, 6:20 AM UTC

smalter wrote: post #16

mixmax wrote: post #4

Even though the question (imho) is a bit awkward it is interesting. And since there is clearly a following around PG it is a valid question to ask. I think the reason is that he resonates well with a large group of people (hackers) that are smart and able, but are often very introvert. They often don't get the credit they deserve, are bored with the typical business and corporate stuff that they find simple and shall…

yes, the cult of paul graham reminds me of people who worship ayn rand. her writing gives people a sense of power, that they can transform the world with their will & determination. paul graham's writings/personal story empower in the same way. although, like rand, it's unclear whether the characters in their stories have real world referents or portray a world closer to (an empowering) fantasy than reality. (this po…

I don't agree with this comparison. Rand has always struck me as an ideologue, someone who was rigidly attached to a system (and the inevitable movement to go along with it). I don't find this kind of ideological rigidity in Paul Graham's writing, which is both unpredictable and miscellaneous (it's about whatever the author happens to be interested in). If there's a common pattern, it's mostly a desire to figure things out and move on to the next thing; basically, curiosity. This is hardly reminiscent of Ayn Rand. That being said, I think I can understand why someone might read PG that way. He tends to put things in absolute terms. Some people see that as fanaticism. I don't. I think it comes from a desire to hit the nail on the head. It's more like trying to get a high score in a video game than like telling other people what to do.

Re: undefined

#54

Post by noonespecial » Mon, Apr 14, 2008, 6:59 AM UTC

noonespecial wrote: post #47

smalter wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, the cult of paul graham reminds me of people who worship ayn rand. her writing gives people a sense of power, that they can transform the world with their will & determination. paul graham's writings/personal story empower in the same way. although, like rand, it's unclear whether the characters in their stories have real world referents or portray a world closer to (an empowering) fantasy than reality. (this po…

Then to borrow from Ms Rand: She felt herself screaming silently, at times, for a glimpse of human ability, a single glimpse of clean, hard, radiant competence. She had fits of tortured longing for a friend or enemy with a mind better than her own. Most of the people who end up on here, or in PG's orbit in general can find themselves in this quote. It isn't PG himself, per se, but the kind of people he attracts and h…

Ee-yowch. Didn't expect that one to turn into a karma burn. Just saying that Paul attracts a certain kind of person that has a strong tendency towards technical competence. These types of people often like to hang out with others of this type and so it has less to do with the man himself and more to do with finding people of like mind.

As for tortured longing, well, might I just put forth that some of us still work in some pretty dismal offices. Purple prose to be sure, but then, its hard to quote Rand without that particular hue!

Re: undefined

#55

Post by plinkplonk » Mon, Apr 14, 2008, 7:09 AM UTC

noonespecial wrote: post #54

noonespecial wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then to borrow from Ms Rand: She felt herself screaming silently, at times, for a glimpse of human ability, a single glimpse of clean, hard, radiant competence. She had fits of tortured longing for a friend or enemy with a mind better than her own. Most of the people who end up on here, or in PG's orbit in general can find themselves in this quote. It isn't PG himself, per se, but the kind of people he attracts and h…

Ee-yowch. Didn't expect that one to turn into a karma burn. Just saying that Paul attracts a certain kind of person that has a strong tendency towards technical competence. These types of people often like to hang out with others of this type and so it has less to do with the man himself and more to do with finding people of like mind. As for tortured longing , well, might I just put forth that some of us still work…

"Didn't expect that one to turn into a karma burn."

That wasn't the intended effect of my comment. Sorry!

The only part I was disagreeing with was (emphasis mine)

"Most of the people who end up on here, or in PG's orbit in general can find themselves in this quote (by Ayn Rand)".

When you say

"Just saying that Paul attracts a certain kind of person that has a strong tendency towards technical competence. These types of people often like to hang out with others of this type and so it has less to do with the man himself and more to do with finding people of like mind"

it sounds much more reasonable, and more importantly the quote's luridness doesn't obscure what you are trying to say.

Re: undefined

#56

Post by noonespecial » Mon, Apr 14, 2008, 7:18 AM UTC

plinkplonk wrote: post #55

noonespecial wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ee-yowch. Didn't expect that one to turn into a karma burn. Just saying that Paul attracts a certain kind of person that has a strong tendency towards technical competence. These types of people often like to hang out with others of this type and so it has less to do with the man himself and more to do with finding people of like mind. As for tortured longing , well, might I just put forth that some of us still work…

"Didn't expect that one to turn into a karma burn." That wasn't the intended effect of my comment. Sorry! The only part I was disagreeing with was (emphasis mine) "Most of the people who end up on here, or in PG's orbit in general can find themselves in this quote (by Ayn Rand)". When you say "Just saying that Paul attracts a certain kind of person that has a strong tendency towards technical competence. These types…

Yeah, cool, got it. The parent mentioned Rand, so I thought I'd throw some in. The context actually works in the book better than the quote might appear in the comment. It depicts someone who does know what they are doing in a job surrounded by people who don't wishing for a change. That's what brings me here at any rate. Ayn's typical over-the-top-ness obscured it in the book as well, but by then you'd read hundreds of pages and were quite used to it!

Re: undefined

#57

Post by jhrobert » Mon, Apr 14, 2008, 11:33 AM UTC

mixmax wrote: post #4

Even though the question (imho) is a bit awkward it is interesting. And since there is clearly a following around PG it is a valid question to ask. I think the reason is that he resonates well with a large group of people (hackers) that are smart and able, but are often very introvert. They often don't get the credit they deserve, are bored with the typical business and corporate stuff that they find simple and shall…

Itis not introvert, it is Asperger Syndrome, ie strange genes, this is what makes PG special!

Why such a Syndrome exists is probably related to the nature of evolution, where diversity is a desirable feature to increase the overall complexity, evolution's apparent goal.

Unconventional thinkers are a blessing.