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Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

blogs.scientificamerican.com

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Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#51

Post by scarface74 »

amha wrote: post #23

What's frustrating here is the attitude that if you agree with (or work with) someone on some particular topic, then you are necessarily endorsing that person's views on EVERY topic. In other words, you should never associate with someone unless you agree with 100% of their views. If we brought this attitude into our personal lives, it would make our interactions with family members and colleagues impossible! I disag…

It's one thing to distance yourself from someone because you don't agree with them about supply side economics and another to distance yourself from someone because they demonize certain people and cultures.

There is s guy I consider a friend who couldn't be more opposite than I am. In a lot of ways he is a stereotypical Trump #MAGA guy and I'm definitely on the other end of the spectrum. He's retired ex-military, mid western, and my family is more stereotypical one of the NPR listening "cultural elites".

But, on the issues that would make me separate myself from him - if he were always making racist statements - he's definitely not that. He is White, married to a deaf Vietnamese lady who he loves dearly. Attends a predominately Black church and would give anyone the shirt off of his back.

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#52

Post by debt »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #46
debt wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is he's "the science guy" which by extension many laypeople associate with actual scientists. By attending the SOTU, to laypeople it makes it look like scientists agree with the president's positions on climate change. Unfortunately, I believe this demonization of Bill Nye is appropriate.

How is this an appropriate attitude to have? Not attacking you, but are you saying that NO scientist or "science guys" can try and influence politics right now just because there is someone in the office who, very obviously, doesn't understand science? Edit: I believe if you want to change behavior, you model the behavior yourself. If you shut yourself out of the discussion, then so will others. You don't tell people…

It's more of a PR issue. It seems the large community of scientists, disagree strongly with Trump's positions on nearly everything.

Bill Nye circumvents that community completely but yet still represents an entry point of science for many(most?) laypeople.

I don't think laypeople are nuanced enough to know that a "science guy" isn't a "scientist". So it's setting back scientists a little bit from a PR perspective by having this hack be seen publicly associating with the Trump administration.

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#53

Post by btilly »

volgo wrote: post #2

This is ridiculous. They're claiming that merely associating himself with the government is a tacit support of Trump's attack on science. Bill is there to promote NASA's space exploration initiative. If you withdraw from participating in the government for the mere reason that it's connected to Trump in general, you're not gonna push any of your agendas forward.

Not so ridiculous.

He has a purpose in wanting to be there. They have a purpose in wanting to have him there. Both purposes will get served. Generally not equally. You have to look at the combination, and decide whether you like what happens overall.

Look, for example, at the example the offer gives where he debated a creationist. His purpose was to be able to present the science to people who normally reject it. Their purpose was to raise funds for a religious project. Both happened. But most third parties agree that his helping the Ark get built made a bigger difference than his getting a opportunity to present science to people who were unwilling to listen to him.

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#54

Post by themistocle »

debt wrote: post #41
volgo wrote: post #2

This is ridiculous. They're claiming that merely associating himself with the government is a tacit support of Trump's attack on science. Bill is there to promote NASA's space exploration initiative. If you withdraw from participating in the government for the mere reason that it's connected to Trump in general, you're not gonna push any of your agendas forward.

The problem is he's "the science guy" which by extension many laypeople associate with actual scientists. By attending the SOTU, to laypeople it makes it look like scientists agree with the president's positions on climate change. Unfortunately, I believe this demonization of Bill Nye is appropriate.

Who would have known or even cared were it not for this denounciation?

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#55

Post by JustSomeNobody »

debt wrote: post #52
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this an appropriate attitude to have? Not attacking you, but are you saying that NO scientist or "science guys" can try and influence politics right now just because there is someone in the office who, very obviously, doesn't understand science? Edit: I believe if you want to change behavior, you model the behavior yourself. If you shut yourself out of the discussion, then so will others. You don't tell people…

It's more of a PR issue. It seems the large community of scientists, disagree strongly with Trump's positions on nearly everything. Bill Nye circumvents that community completely but yet still represents an entry point of science for many(most?) laypeople. I don't think laypeople are nuanced enough to know that a "science guy" isn't a "scientist". So it's setting back scientists a little bit from a PR perspective by…

Then they need to step up and start influencing Trump. You can't wait until the next election. That fool might get re-elected.

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#57

Post by debt »

I love that this gets flagged because it clearly illustrates the level of support people on this forum have for the administration; which is scary.

We're talking Trump here; a vociferous enemy of science and fierce climate change denier. By his own actions and admissions!

Why is it so difficult to understand this scientist's position?

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#58

Post by JustSomeNobody »

chris_wot wrote: post #48
amha wrote: post #23

What's frustrating here is the attitude that if you agree with (or work with) someone on some particular topic, then you are necessarily endorsing that person's views on EVERY topic. In other words, you should never associate with someone unless you agree with 100% of their views. If we brought this attitude into our personal lives, it would make our interactions with family members and colleagues impossible! I disag…

Only associating with people whose views are in complete alignment with your own is a good way to become lonely, angry, and ineffective. Ironically, it’s exactly what the current White House does. edit: I’ve been rate limited (I have no idea why!), but I was going to reply that I didn’t think this was a good thing.

Ok, so when do we stop with the, "well they do it" arguments and step up? At some point, someone needs to act like an adult in politics.

Re: Bill Nye Does Not Speak for Us and He Does Not Speak for Science

#59

Post by debt »

amha wrote: post #23

What's frustrating here is the attitude that if you agree with (or work with) someone on some particular topic, then you are necessarily endorsing that person's views on EVERY topic. In other words, you should never associate with someone unless you agree with 100% of their views. If we brought this attitude into our personal lives, it would make our interactions with family members and colleagues impossible! I disag…

I think the recent Volkswagen Emissions scandal have illustrated how, in the extreme case, it's actually pretty damn important to be in tune with the so called big picture of whatever institution or entity you're operating under.
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