Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It • Hacker News Board

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#51

Post by ex3ndr » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:01 AM UTC

roadbeats wrote: post #25

psergeant wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article is just another Western propaganda Your rebuttal appears to be very close to the viewpoint that Russian propaganda is trying to promote

I'm sure Russian propaganda could be more reliable than American propaganda when it comes to Middle East :) My sources are not media and propaganda though. I read & also travel a lot. Before the war my cousin and I were importing carpet from Syria. During the war I traveled along Turkey - Syria border twice, also to the south side, Jordan. And since the beginning of this war, I think about it almost every day, feel d…

I believe that people are also affected by local propaganda and they told you propaganda instead of something real. Same is happening with Russia and Ukraine. My ex-wife have Ukranian roots and i am from russia. Ukranian part of her family stopped to talk to russian one and both sides always turn on propaganda when talking to other side. No one of them know what's happening and the truth as always somewhere in the middle.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#52

Post by psergeant » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:03 AM UTC

anticodon wrote: post #48

psergeant wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems odd to conflate a freely owned news source that’s seen as public enemy number one by the executive branch with Russian state news sources. Looking forward to those RT and Sputnik op-eds criticising Putin!

For the news source being freely owned might be a necessary condition to be objective but it is definitely not sufficient.

Sure. That’s why a hundred years of vigorously criticising the government is important to take into account.

Also: your comment history seems unusually political when it comes to Russia.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#53

Post by psergeant » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:05 AM UTC

ex3ndr wrote: post #51

roadbeats wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure Russian propaganda could be more reliable than American propaganda when it comes to Middle East :) My sources are not media and propaganda though. I read & also travel a lot. Before the war my cousin and I were importing carpet from Syria. During the war I traveled along Turkey - Syria border twice, also to the south side, Jordan. And since the beginning of this war, I think about it almost every day, feel d…

I believe that people are also affected by local propaganda and they told you propaganda instead of something real. Same is happening with Russia and Ukraine. My ex-wife have Ukranian roots and i am from russia. Ukranian part of her family stopped to talk to russian one and both sides always turn on propaganda when talking to other side. No one of them know what's happening and the truth as always somewhere in the mi…

> the truth as always somewhere in the middle

This is a common logical fallacy used by propagandists.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/middle-ground

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#54

Post by jimjimjim » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:15 AM UTC

_fwu1 wrote: post #5

Here is my question for HN readers: do you trust this article? Because it tries to fool us. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Europe, US and Turkey was the big alliance which tried to take down Syria. Please check the records western news channels in 2013, it was full of joyful propaganda about Free Syrian Army fighting for democracy in Syria. The actual goal was of course had nothing to do with democracy and Arab spring was tota…

what are you talking about. that's a weird conspiracy theory you've got (and i know a lot of weird theories).

but where do i begin. oil - yes europe want to reduce reliance on russian gas but there are a LOT of countries between qatar and europe.

Arab spring - did NOT start in syria. in syria the flames were fanned by all interested countries in the hopes that a bunch of autocratic dictators would be overthrown with no effort required. didn't work, total balls up, in every case the cure was worse than the problem.

Turkey - got involved for 3 reasons: 1) the shit-show was on their borders. 2) the more the kurds got involved the more turkey saw a need to reduce their power. 3) turkey now sees it self as a regional super-power and wants a show of force.

Russia - they inserted themselves into the mess and claim Syria under there sphere of influence. their troops get a bit of practice, they get an ally and a port in the Mediterranean.

Iran and Saudi - they have been having a proxy war in yemen and the US has re-affirmed it's support of the saudi (they would be crazy not to). they made a BIG flashy show about stopping terrorism. very next thing that happens they all turn on qatar.

'Russia won the war in both Ukraine and Syria, at same time' what is your sentence meant to imply? these weren't wars they were minor deployments of resources that wouldn't tax any reasonably large country.

stop spreading propaganda.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#55

Post by rgbrenner » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:21 AM UTC

Reason077 wrote: post #39

rgbrenner wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal was to create a new pipeline from Qatar to Europe so Europe don’t have to buy gas from Russia. Your missing something obvious with this conspiracy theory. Look at a map. Iraq borders both SA and Turkey. It would be cheaper to build through Iraq than destabilize an entire country. Believe it or not, every time something goes wrong in the world, the US is not behind it. These conspiracy theories help no one.

"It would be cheaper to build through Iraq than destabilize an entire country." Except that at the time, Iraq was itself a highly unstable conflict zone. Building a pipeline in those conditions was not viable, and probably still isn't.

But we're comparing Iraq with destabilizing a country, re-securing it, establishing a relationship with the leaders, etc.. and then building a pipeline.

Iraq is further along in that process.. than starting anew with Syria.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#56

Post by jessaustin » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:22 AM UTC

kchoudhu wrote: post #26

jessaustin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Al Jazeera has got to have something to do with it, right? The biggest threats to royalty are always their subjects, and even if AJ is somewhat discredited as Qatari propaganda in its neighbor's societies, it is also certainly more than that. As someone from a different hemisphere, I have to say the AJ Roku app is the single best way I've found to watch news. No one is risking the ire of his rulers to check out what…

The Al Jazeera thing always struck me as a canard: it's been in operation for the last 20 years, why did it suddenly become such a sticking point in 2017?

ISTM it probably happened in 2011? The young prince wasn't in a position to do anything at that time, although one can imagine that Salman was bringing him around to listen to the various old dudes then, and the topic probably came up. He certainly hit the ground running in 2015.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#57

Post by BatFastard » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:27 AM UTC

jimjimjim wrote: post #54

_fwu1 wrote: post #5

Here is my question for HN readers: do you trust this article? Because it tries to fool us. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Europe, US and Turkey was the big alliance which tried to take down Syria. Please check the records western news channels in 2013, it was full of joyful propaganda about Free Syrian Army fighting for democracy in Syria. The actual goal was of course had nothing to do with democracy and Arab spring was tota…

what are you talking about. that's a weird conspiracy theory you've got (and i know a lot of weird theories). but where do i begin. oil - yes europe want to reduce reliance on russian gas but there are a LOT of countries between qatar and europe. Arab spring - did NOT start in syria. in syria the flames were fanned by all interested countries in the hopes that a bunch of autocratic dictators would be overthrown with…

I am betting on the Kurds to kick their ass. The Kurds are a well trained, well equipped (for the moment at least), motivated force defending themselves.

The Turks (IMHO) are unseasoned forces are fighting battle that is against international laws, and is for a country run by a dictator. Both points that are huge factors against their success.

It will probably come down to air power, I wonder what the Kurds have in the way of surface to air missiles?

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#58

Post by nikcub » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:31 AM UTC

Consultant32452 wrote: post #44

rgbrenner wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal was to create a new pipeline from Qatar to Europe so Europe don’t have to buy gas from Russia. Your missing something obvious with this conspiracy theory. Look at a map. Iraq borders both SA and Turkey. It would be cheaper to build through Iraq than destabilize an entire country. Believe it or not, every time something goes wrong in the world, the US is not behind it. These conspiracy theories help no one.

Worth the read: https://www.mintpressnews.com/wikileaks-us-israel-and-saudi-...

Have a link to the original cable?

A lot of what is written there doesn't pass the basic smell test of anybody even vaguely familiar with the conflict

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#59

Post by danmaz74 » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:37 AM UTC

_fwu1 wrote: post #5

Here is my question for HN readers: do you trust this article? Because it tries to fool us. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Europe, US and Turkey was the big alliance which tried to take down Syria. Please check the records western news channels in 2013, it was full of joyful propaganda about Free Syrian Army fighting for democracy in Syria. The actual goal was of course had nothing to do with democracy and Arab spring was tota…

It's the first time I see such a complete garbage Putin-propaganda comment at the top on HN (I won't repeat the reasons here - just read the other top answers). I find it very, very worrying.

Re: Tiny, Wealthy Qatar Goes Its Own Way, and Pays for It

#60

Post by jimjimjim » Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 6:37 AM UTC

BatFastard wrote: post #57

jimjimjim wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what are you talking about. that's a weird conspiracy theory you've got (and i know a lot of weird theories). but where do i begin. oil - yes europe want to reduce reliance on russian gas but there are a LOT of countries between qatar and europe. Arab spring - did NOT start in syria. in syria the flames were fanned by all interested countries in the hopes that a bunch of autocratic dictators would be overthrown with…

I am betting on the Kurds to kick their ass. The Kurds are a well trained, well equipped (for the moment at least), motivated force defending themselves. The Turks (IMHO) are unseasoned forces are fighting battle that is against international laws, and is for a country run by a dictator. Both points that are huge factors against their success. It will probably come down to air power, I wonder what the Kurds have in t…

alas, since the crack downs, turkey just does not care about international opinion (they have a cordial relationship with russia, and donald seems to admire Erdoğan). they will probably just shell it for a while.