2017 Homicide Rates in Latin America and the Carribean • Hacker News Board

Re: 2017 Homicide Rates in Latin America and the Carribean

#51

Post by stable_jump » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 6:32 PM UTC

gsteinb88 wrote: post #45

Red_Tarsius wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That chart is far from surprising. I was shocked to find out that 52% of US homicides recorded between 1980 and 2008 were committed by black offenders, but only around 13% of Americans are black! Pointing to poverty rates is not a satisfactory answer. Whatever the reason, people should be able to acknowledge hard truths and still uphold equal rights.

How about pointing to several hundred years of systemic slavery and oppression without any meaningful reparation efforts?

African Americans were taller than whites in the years of 'systematic slavery and oppression'. Today they are shorter than whites.

Slaves worked 89 percent as many hours per year as whites.

[Trevon Logan](http://www.econ.ohio-state.edu/trevon/pdf/Pres_Address_09-02...) did an experiment seeing how much cotton his children could pick in a day and found that they picked 95% of what the slaves picked of the same age.

Only 1.2% of the former slaves interviewed by the Works Progress Administration in the 1930s reported having been raped by a master. Today, 22% of black women report having been raped.

According to Steven Crawford in "The Slave Family: A view from the slave narratives", 51% of black slaves had intact families. In 2011, only 37% of blacks had intact families.

Re: 2017 Homicide Rates in Latin America and the Carribean

#52

Post by lostlogin » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 6:36 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #46

gsteinb88 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about pointing to several hundred years of systemic slavery and oppression without any meaningful reparation efforts?

Try having a conversation with Europeans about how many trillions of dollars in reparations they owe black Americans and black Latin Americans (those that are descendants of slaves), for the millions of slaves their various nations/empires transported from Africa to North and South America over centuries.

It’s an internal problem first and foremost and progress needs to be made at home first. There are models to follow. New Zealand had been making slow and steady progress righting colonial wrongs. There have been many missteps and failures but the overall direction is positive. Important differences though - systematic and large scale slavery didn’t happen and the time frame during which the damage was done was shorter.

Re: 2017 Homicide Rates in Latin America and the Carribean

#53

Post by lostlogin » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 6:44 PM UTC

afpx wrote: post #10

adventured wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between states is also fascinating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_in_the_United_States_by... From New Hampshire at 1.1, Hawaii at 1.3, and Vermont at 1.6 to Mississippi at 8.7 and Louisiana at 10.

There’s a strong negative correlation between latitude and crime. One hypothesis is that people further away from the equator spend more time inside annually, and thus have less opportunity for crime.

You get a good idea of this by comparing winter and summer stats for the same location. Hot, humid weather causes more crime.

This linked adds a new dimension - climate change with warmer temperatures would appear to come with an increased death toll due to crime.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S009506961...

Re: 2017 Homicide Rates in Latin America and the Carribean

#54

Post by lostlogin » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 6:47 PM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #42

jernfrost wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is like that in almost all countries though. Most countries have towns or cities with much higher than average rate. That is natural. Except e.g. the most violent city in Sweden has the same rate as the average in the US

What's the racial make-up of this violence in Sweden Vs the US? Sweden should have zero spots that rival US cities for violence.

Is there a reason you go to race rather than any other measure? I’d suggest poverty as a better root cause.

Re: 2017 Homicide Rates in Latin America and the Carribean

#55

Post by stable_jump » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 6:49 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #46

gsteinb88 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about pointing to several hundred years of systemic slavery and oppression without any meaningful reparation efforts?

Try having a conversation with Europeans about how many trillions of dollars in reparations they owe black Americans and black Latin Americans (those that are descendants of slaves), for the millions of slaves their various nations/empires transported from Africa to North and South America over centuries.

My hands are clean. My peoples hands are clean. Don't blame me for this.

The supply of slaves was inelastic. The atlantic slave trade amounted to ~10.15% of the total African slave trade between 1525 and 1866. Roughly 41% of blacks in West and Central Africa prior to European conquest were slaves. The slaves that were transported to the west had much better lives than they would have had elsewhere, and the west led the fight to end slavery.

How many trillions of dollars are being transferred from Europeans/whites to blacks and non-hispanic whites today? Both groups are an enormous net loss for the US government. Hispanics run a budget deficit of $411.95 billion while blacks run a budget deficit of $389.71 billion.

Re: 2017 Homicide Rates in Latin America and the Carribean

#56

Post by adventured » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 6:57 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #52

adventured wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try having a conversation with Europeans about how many trillions of dollars in reparations they owe black Americans and black Latin Americans (those that are descendants of slaves), for the millions of slaves their various nations/empires transported from Africa to North and South America over centuries.

It’s an internal problem first and foremost and progress needs to be made at home first. There are models to follow. New Zealand had been making slow and steady progress righting colonial wrongs. There have been many missteps and failures but the overall direction is positive. Important differences though - systematic and large scale slavery didn’t happen and the time frame during which the damage was done was shorte…

My point primarily is that, the discussion about reparations, is almost universally isolated to how much the US Government should have to pay. It almost universally excludes the nations that dominated the slave trade, such as Britain. Various rich, powerful European nations benefited massively from the economic output of the vast slavery they initiated and maintained, while suffering essentially none of the consequences, leaving the young US nation (and obviously numerous other nations in the Americas like Brazil or Haiti) to deal with those consequences ever since.

There's no scenario where you can propose the Netherlands should compensate slave descendants in the Americas, to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars or more, where you're going to convince them to even have that conversation. People of the Netherlands today will simply tell you they had nothing to do with it, and should not be held responsible for past sins, and that's the end of the conversation (unless you want a small token sum to wipe away the guilt and grievance).

Re: 2017 Homicide Rates in Latin America and the Carribean

#57

Post by stable_jump » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 7:08 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #56

lostlogin wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an internal problem first and foremost and progress needs to be made at home first. There are models to follow. New Zealand had been making slow and steady progress righting colonial wrongs. There have been many missteps and failures but the overall direction is positive. Important differences though - systematic and large scale slavery didn’t happen and the time frame during which the damage was done was shorte…

My point primarily is that, the discussion about reparations, is almost universally isolated to how much the US Government should have to pay. It almost universally excludes the nations that dominated the slave trade, such as Britain. Various rich, powerful European nations benefited massively from the economic output of the vast slavery they initiated and maintained, while suffering essentially none of the consequen…

Tens of thousands of old white people die of cold yearly in Britain. Sweden is considering upping the retirement age. Etc. This is because there's an enormous transfer of wealth taking place all across the west from the natives to immigrants. The money is simply not being passed between the natives anymore, and this is the result. Don't worry, everyone will be given their fair share, and quiet a bit more.

I'm curious if it's possible to measure the enormous amount of wealth transfer that's been transferred to the third world? If the west had not given Africa cars, electricity, GPS, medicine, and pretty much everything else, what would it look like?

Re: 2017 Homicide Rates in Latin America and the Carribean

#58

Post by adventured » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 7:10 PM UTC

stable_jump wrote: post #55

adventured wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try having a conversation with Europeans about how many trillions of dollars in reparations they owe black Americans and black Latin Americans (those that are descendants of slaves), for the millions of slaves their various nations/empires transported from Africa to North and South America over centuries.

My hands are clean. My peoples hands are clean. Don't blame me for this. The supply of slaves was inelastic. The atlantic slave trade amounted to ~10.15% of the total African slave trade between 1525 and 1866. Roughly 41% of blacks in West and Central Africa prior to European conquest were slaves. The slaves that were transported to the west had much better lives than they would have had elsewhere, and the west led t…

Well that's actually precisely the problem and conversation that reparations always prompts.

Most people's hands are clean in a direct sense. Almost nobody in a developed nation has clean hands indirectly. Very few white people were slave owners or traders. How could one possibly account for the benefit a white (or black or asian) person in Britain today derives from British slavery in the 18th century? How could you possibly proportion reparations on any nation? Should a person that immigrated to Britain in 1978 from China, have to pay taxes to cover those reparations? Plausibly there's no way to deal with that fundamental issue that doesn't involve harming extremely large numbers of strictly innocent people, and the theoretical cost would be massive if you did attempt to do it (such that it would be guaranteed to be a tax on everyone across the board, regardless of race or guilt).

I've seen a lot of valid discussion of reparations in my lifetime. The topic itself is perfectly legitimate as a discussion matter. I've never once seen a practical way suggested that it could be implemented justly in regards to any of that nations that were responsible for the African slave trade.

Re: 2017 Homicide Rates in Latin America and the Carribean

#59

Post by lostlogin » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 7:14 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #56

lostlogin wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s an internal problem first and foremost and progress needs to be made at home first. There are models to follow. New Zealand had been making slow and steady progress righting colonial wrongs. There have been many missteps and failures but the overall direction is positive. Important differences though - systematic and large scale slavery didn’t happen and the time frame during which the damage was done was shorte…

My point primarily is that, the discussion about reparations, is almost universally isolated to how much the US Government should have to pay. It almost universally excludes the nations that dominated the slave trade, such as Britain. Various rich, powerful European nations benefited massively from the economic output of the vast slavery they initiated and maintained, while suffering essentially none of the consequen…

New Zealand’s problems due to colonisation stem almost entirely from the British government. It should be them paying to fix it and not New Zealand, with liability for actions that New Zealand pays for starting from when we governed ourselves. However this isn’t going to happen - Britain will never pay, so fixing it ourselves is the only course that repairs the damage that can be repaired. The sooner action is taken the better.

It’s simpler here because much of the harm done relates to land theft. Working out who you repay when people don’t necessarily know where they were kidnapped from and what they lost is not the same.

Re: 2017 Homicide Rates in Latin America and the Carribean

#60

Post by lostlogin » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 7:16 PM UTC

stable_jump wrote: post #57

adventured wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point primarily is that, the discussion about reparations, is almost universally isolated to how much the US Government should have to pay. It almost universally excludes the nations that dominated the slave trade, such as Britain. Various rich, powerful European nations benefited massively from the economic output of the vast slavery they initiated and maintained, while suffering essentially none of the consequen…

Tens of thousands of old white people die of cold yearly in Britain. Sweden is considering upping the retirement age. Etc. This is because there's an enormous transfer of wealth taking place all across the west from the natives to immigrants. The money is simply not being passed between the natives anymore, and this is the result. Don't worry, everyone will be given their fair share, and quiet a bit more. I'm curious…

Not sure I see any of that where I am but if you want to stretch that view, Africa gave us humans so who owes who? There is plenty out of Africa that has helped the rest of the world, why the blinkered view?

Edit: I see that your account is a throwaway that spends its time defending the slave trade.