Social Media: Making Us Dumber? • Hacker News Board

Re: Social Media: Making Us Dumber?

#51

Post by asabjorn » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

daemin wrote: post #28

Quarrelsome wrote: post #19

Is it not possible we were always this dumb but more that most of us talked less? This isn't beyond the standard "pub talk" but today that "pub" is the online world and published for all to see. Where previously you'd have reporters and sub-editors and editors to publish; today you can just run your mouth off whenever you want and the crowds can all hear. This sort of thing makes us _look_ dumber compared to the era…

So as before you would say 'dumb' things to your inner social circle of friends, with an occasional stranger overhearing. Today you can say those same things online, but instead of it just being your friends it's effectively on the public record and everyone can see and comment on what you said. This reminds me of a story that Clay Shirky told about how one of his students/coworkers wanted to announce the breakup of…

People say things now in a social context in real life and then someone takes it out of context to rile up a mob online, making it dumb because it was taken out of context and used against them. As we are all humans most people with the context probably recognize this and are secretly glad they were not the ones targeted, although I doubt most of us want this kind of society.

It seems reasonable to believe that the person misrepresenting is often aware of the context and is disingenuous in their representation. And if not I am not sure why we are giving the stage to people with poor comprehension skills and a correspondingly violent temper.

Re: Social Media: Making Us Dumber?

#52

Post by throwanem » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 1:14 PM UTC

smcl wrote: post #45

adriand wrote: post #39

It's become vogue to talk about social media in this manner but the problem is much more generalized. Sensationalist news from mainstream/traditional media outlets does exactly the same thing. And the sensitivity around issues of race, gender, sexuality, and so on, is destroying our ability to engage in civil discourse with one another - not just on social media, but even in our classrooms. Here's an example of what…

I know where you're trying to go with this and your heart is in the right place, but the example is awful and does not help in the slightest. I have a feeling that I'm gonna get "ugh, replies like yours are exactly the problem, smcl!" but to me asking children to come up with some good side of slavery is up there with trying to find the good side of the holocaust. Whether "good" or "bad" is in quotes doesn't really c…

Fourth grade probably is too early for Lincoln-Douglas, sure. This by you makes it verboten?

Re: Social Media: Making Us Dumber?

#53

Post by base698 » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 1:16 PM UTC

cbcoutinho wrote: post #17

This is great time to mention one of my favorite books on the media and public discourse: Amusing Ourselves to Death - Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business, by Neil Postman. In the book, the two infamous dystopian novels of the 20th century (1984 and Brave New World) are compared to determine which one our world most closely resembles. The two books differ in how they describe the source of the dystopia. It's…

May want to check out "Technopoly" by Postman as well. It's got some of the same points but goes deeper into technology in general. It opens with a story from Phaedrus by Plato where a king is arguing with a god over the utility of writing. The god says it's amazing and allows all knowledge to be stored, etc. But the king says the god is too enamored with his invention and can't see downsides like knowledge being decoupled from instruction and loss of memory since everything is written down.

Lesson of course is all technologies have up sides and down sides, but we rarely ever discuss the down sides.

Re: Social Media: Making Us Dumber?

#54

Post by throwanem » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 1:17 PM UTC

markdog12 wrote: post #42

Dowwie wrote: post #36

To trust information given by someone I trust is probably in my hard wiring. I don't feel dumber because I reacted to shared information. However, more than ever, I try to question the validity of the content and won't go beyond a sensational title if the source is questionable. I used to trust content, but now I take deliberate, mindful steps to question it. At the least, social media has become more exhausting beca…

> If I could wave a magic wand, I would introduce friction to sharing media Even better, suffuse everyone with that great skepticism you speak of. Unfortunately, your suggestions are infinitely more practical.

Unfortunately, those suggestions are just as impractical, because maximally incontinent sharing is maximally remunerative to a platform which monetizes user engagement.

Re: Social Media: Making Us Dumber?

#55

Post by throwanem » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 1:18 PM UTC

nurettin wrote: post #2

NYT requires a digital subscription.

...while Twitter and Facebook are free.

Re: Social Media: Making Us Dumber?

#56

Post by eeZah7Ux » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 1:19 PM UTC

afpx wrote: post #7

It shows how far the US has shifted to the right when the NYT would describe Pinker as a liberal. Twenty years ago his views were considered more center-right (in the US at least). But, I am off-topic ... The biggest problem with social media is that it massively amplifies radical (and, often ignorant or misguided) opinions. This especially disturbs me, because I sort of helped cause it. As a kid, I wanted the more r…

Do you mean "radical" or "extremist"?

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radical: characterized by departure from tradition; innovative or progressive. "the city is known for its radical approach to transport policy"

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Re: Social Media: Making Us Dumber?

#57

Post by watwut » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 1:19 PM UTC

adriand wrote: post #39

It's become vogue to talk about social media in this manner but the problem is much more generalized. Sensationalist news from mainstream/traditional media outlets does exactly the same thing. And the sensitivity around issues of race, gender, sexuality, and so on, is destroying our ability to engage in civil discourse with one another - not just on social media, but even in our classrooms. Here's an example of what…

I would really like to know what exactly is "good" vs good here. And whether the four graders know to distinguish them. It truly is the kind of homework I would not be happy if my child get. Not until they are big enough to real full accounts of former slaves so they fully understand what it is they nuancely argue for here. The nuance here is achieved by ignoring bloody reality of slavery.

"It economically benefits me" is a "good" reason for slavery? Would we analyze it the same for hired assassin for gang? The latter kills less people. Is "good" in your meaning "egoistical"?

I don't see much space for nuance here and can imagine just about million topics with true moral grey in them.

Re: Social Media: Making Us Dumber?

#58

Post by throwanem » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 1:21 PM UTC

minikites wrote: post #33

>That’s because the pernicious social dynamics of these online spaces hammer home the idea that anyone who disagrees with you on any controversial subject, even a little bit, is incorrigibly dumb or evil or suspect. I see some merits in this article and I agree with certain parts up to a certain point, but the portion I quoted above is actually more troubling to me. There are lots of people who refuse to believe basi…

Anti-vaxers are a bugaboo here. When PZ Myers mistakes Steven Pinker for a fascist because no one has the interest or the attention span to grasp an argument that takes eight minutes to make, we have a real problem.

Re: Social Media: Making Us Dumber?

#59

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 1:22 PM UTC

avenius wrote: post #5

asabjorn wrote: post #3

As a liberal that subscribe to The NY Times I wonder why they always have to make these issues so politicized, even when they are making a good observation. The problem they describe, violent reaction to opposing views, seem present amongst all sides of the political spectrum and it does not seem limited to extreme opinions. The article seems in a very indirect way to make argument that violent reaction to and ostrac…

You make a good point - they appear to make themselves part of the problem, which in my view is the increasing polarization of topics. There no longer seems to be any middle ground in the public discourse, instead everyone is entrenched on their respective poles. It's immensely frustrating.

[deleted]

Re: Social Media: Making Us Dumber?

#60

Post by ainiriand » Fri, Jan 12, 2018, 1:22 PM UTC

Quarrelsome wrote: post #19

Is it not possible we were always this dumb but more that most of us talked less? This isn't beyond the standard "pub talk" but today that "pub" is the online world and published for all to see. Where previously you'd have reporters and sub-editors and editors to publish; today you can just run your mouth off whenever you want and the crowds can all hear. This sort of thing makes us _look_ dumber compared to the era…

> 'today you can just run your mouth off whenever you want and the crowds can all hear'

This sums it up. Also worth taking into account the abuse of anonymity. Some people would not speak in the same way to some people in front of that given person or relatives.