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As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

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Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#51

Post by townesok »

gervase wrote: post #17
brohoolio wrote: post #16

Trump is going to ruin the American economy. Attack universities by discouraging foreign students. Cut federal funding for research. Encourage political attacks on universities. The most damaging will be not forgiving student loans from people who went to scam universities, like Trump university. What Trump and others don’t recognize is that the American university system is a distributed system of factories that man…

I absolutely believe that this is recognized, and is considered by some to be the precise point of this assault. A poorly-educated workforce drives down wages, speeds automation of low-skill jobs, decreases social mobility, and makes for a more predictable and easily-manipulated electorate. The few remaining high-skill, high-pay jobs can be filled by those who can afford to foot the entire bill for 12-18 years of pri…

Yep.

It seems obvious that one party is actively making education more difficult to obtain to increase a demographic[1] advantage.

I'm not sure how to "prove" this. And anyway there's way too much plausible deniability to ever get anywhere.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_ele...

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#52

Post by [deleted] »

jdamon96 wrote: post #39
ransom1538 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There are 3,003 international students enrolled in degree programs at MIT—430 undergraduates (10%) and 2,876 graduate students (43%)—for the current academic year." Really? First school I googled is 3k students. "High tuition and fees are always the number one culprit." No. US students attend IF they get in. This is why we are in a student loan crisis. There is no lack of money backed by US guaranteed college loans.

"No. US students attend IF they get in. This is why we are in a student loan crisis. There is no lack of money backed by USA guaranteed loans." Can you help me understand this logic? I don't understand the connection being made from admissions statistics to the student loans crisis.

[deleted]

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#53

Post by seanmcdirmid »

lewis500 wrote: post #40

There are really three different downsides to this. First, the foreign students cross-subsidize the locals' education. There are large fixed costs to running a university and these students pay way above their marginal costs. So now the universities have fewer resources; hence cutting the newspaper funding etc. Second, the foreign students increase the schools' reputations and can collaborate with the faculty. Resear…

> In my own PhD program, the productivity of the Americans was much lower than the foreigners.

I think the bias has swung way too far the other way. Racism against Americans is still racism.

Also, this applies mainly to undergrads (full paying students), not PhD students who are generally fully funded.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#54

Post by mc32 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #48
mc32 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As other have pointed out, this is mostly about the schools losing full-tuition international students, ie.e "International students pay double the $6,445 tuition of Missouri residents" --which is insane. I mean, it's insane for in-state students to have to shell out 6.5 thousand a year for higher ed... The international students are typically those kids of parents who are perhaps middle to upper middle class in a fo…

> The international students are typically those kids of parents who are perhaps middle to upper middle class in a foreign country (JP, KR, TW, IN, CN, UK, AU, etc) who want to send their kids to an American school and get an "American" degree and go back home for a job Source? Most of the international students I went to school with are still here, working.

I don't have stats but given that in order to stay after an F-1 you need to have job lined up and getting a job as an F-1 is not easy and in addition seeing the vast majority of F-1 students I was acquainted with in UNI went back home after graduation, I would have to suggest the great majority do go back home, generally speaking.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#55

Post by chroem- »

curiousgal wrote: post #23
maoistinquisitr wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the opposite. American students with options are deliberately avoiding the fields the foreign students crowd because of the wage and working conditions suppression the added competition produces. Deliberately discouraging the huge numbers of foreign students will help better cultivate greater American talent. A talent pool of 320 million people is plenty. We don't need to scour the globe.

I am yet to meet a single American who didn’t have access to college because of an international student. High tuition and fees are always the number one culprit.

Come to Washington State. The University of Washington's preference to international students over in-state has become so lopsided that the state legislature has been threatening to cut off funding and force the school to change its name. Most of my in-state friends were denied admission into their majors during undergrad.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#56

Post by freeone3000 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #26
junkscience2017 wrote: post #2

Schools like Cal are still offering too many slots to foreign students despite being chartered to serve the families of taxpayers who provide their funding. The same issue will eventually plague Canadian schools...foreign students will simply pay more directly for tuition even though taxpayers are still the core source of funds. For private universities, no one should care..they should select students from wherever t…

> Schools like Cal are still offering too many slots to foreign students despite being chartered to serve the families of taxpayers who provide their funding. Taxpayers don't provide their funding, taxpayers provide a partial subsidy of the costs associated with in-state students; this is why their is reduced tuition for such students.

Okay, taxpayers provide part of their funding, the remainder of which is through donations and student fees.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#57

Post by fellellor »

mc32 wrote: post #36
petilon wrote: post #10

This is bad news. People like Sergey Brin, co-founder of Google, Elon Musk, founder of Tesla and SpaceX, not to mention CEOs of Google, Microsoft and Adobe all came to the US as students. Without the immigration of the brightest on the planet, the US will, over time, lose its edge.

As other have pointed out, this is mostly about the schools losing full-tuition international students, ie.e "International students pay double the $6,445 tuition of Missouri residents" --which is insane. I mean, it's insane for in-state students to have to shell out 6.5 thousand a year for higher ed... The international students are typically those kids of parents who are perhaps middle to upper middle class in a fo…

>go back home for a job

Haha. Not really. American salaries, standards of living are among the highest/best in the planet. Plus an abundance of economic opportunities and relatively low discrimination compared to what one may face in other developed countries.

These are the only factors which decide whether a family sends their kid to the US for higher ed or not. The degrees themselves aren't worth much at all.

Unless on course you are talking about the very elite, who have well established businesses and properties in their home countries, who then want Ivy League degrees for their kids. They won't give a fk about the average mid western universities that the article is actually talking about.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#59

Post by mc32 »

fellellor wrote: post #57
mc32 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As other have pointed out, this is mostly about the schools losing full-tuition international students, ie.e "International students pay double the $6,445 tuition of Missouri residents" --which is insane. I mean, it's insane for in-state students to have to shell out 6.5 thousand a year for higher ed... The international students are typically those kids of parents who are perhaps middle to upper middle class in a fo…

>go back home for a job Haha. Not really. American salaries, standards of living are among the highest/best in the planet. Plus an abundance of economic opportunities and relatively low discrimination compared to what one may face in other developed countries. These are the only factors which decide whether a family sends their kid to the US for higher ed or not. The degrees themselves aren't worth much at all. Unles…

If the degrees didn't matter, then they would not send their kids here in the first place.

Most of the folks I ran into liked America but loved their countries of origin and looked forward to getting a job and doing well. I was not talking elite students (which is different from students at elite unis who can be a mixed bag)

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#60

Post by [deleted] »

seibelj wrote: post #41
foobarbazetc wrote: post #18

The only surprising thing about this article was how lowly paid a language professor is. $47,000? What?

Seems right to me, given the job prospects for someone whose talent is speaking two languages. Do you think the market for Italian / English specialists is super hot?

[deleted]
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