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Economics of Minecraft

alicemaz.com

51–60 of 115 posts

Re: Economics of Minecraft

#52
post #25

Can anyone recommend a good book about the Minecraft phenomenon? Something that covers its history, rise, proliferation; economics, education, global engagement, etc. It seems like a really great story...

I have not read this, but an excerpt was featured in Wired - http://amzn.to/2DtzgjI Minecraft: The Unlikely Tale of Markus 'Notch' Persson and the Game that Changed Everything

You haven't read it, but you're still using referral links to try and profit from it...

Re: Economics of Minecraft

#53
post #39
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unconditional acceleration — think accelerationism but replace the traditional adherence on partisan political paradigms (seen in L/ACC and R/ACC) with a Landian (Nick Land from the CCRU) cyberpunk eschatological cult that employs ironic internet culture and an anti-Fordist faux-mythologization of 19th century literature & material relations à la alt-right. There was an attempt to institutionalize the movement (outsi…

This raised more questions than answers for me. What are we even talking about here? Economic theory? Political ideology? Philosophy? What exactly is anti-Fordist, accelerationism, L/ACC, R/ACC and CCRU?

If it is any consolation, I had the same reaction. I could look up all those terms, but I'm not interested enough to bother.

Re: Economics of Minecraft

#54
I'd hoped by the end the author and friends would've set up some kind of labour system. After all, it seems they controlled the economy and controlled a lot of mining-time indirectly. I'd have hoped this would lead to them tendering large infrastructure & art projects / city-building with their massive wealth and leave a long-lasting mark on their world.

Re: Economics of Minecraft

#55
post #42

I always presumed Minecraft had most of the logic in the client but this kind of complex economy obviously wouldn't be possible without someone cheating. How does it work?

The server is the source of truth. The client only duplicates logic that's present on the server in order to optimise for network delay.

For example suppose I smash a block of iron ore with a pickaxe. The client tells the server that I used my pickaxe to smash the block of iron ore, the server checks that yes, that pickaxe can smash the iron ore, and adds one chunk of iron ore to my inventory. By duplicating this logic the client can anticipate that I'll get a chunk of ore, but the fact it did that doesn't actually give me ore in the world, it just means my display updates even before the server replies saying "Also now you have ore". I actually think the ore example doens't happen in modern minecraft because a better pick might give more ore, or even auto-smelt it into iron ingots, and the server would decide some of that randomly in some cases - but you get the idea.

Network problems can cause this to de-synchronise. The symptom might be e.g. you dig a block of sand on a new server, your client shows you now have sand, but when you move to where the sand was, your client rubber-bands and the sand re-appears in front of you. But the server is the truth for everybody else, they'll see you lurching about trying to dig sand but failing, and when you fix the problem, you won't have any sand.

Modders are mostly working on the server, although since they add new graphics and other elements the same mods are usually also needed by the client (it just doesn't run the server elements).

Some logic does live purely on the client but it's mostly quality-of-life stuff, e.g. auto-mapping. All the visuals live on the client. So a client can make opaque blocks see-through for example, to some extent, which would be a problem for cheating in combat games, and hit-scanning would be easy to cheat in a client too.

Re: Economics of Minecraft

#56
post #39
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unconditional acceleration — think accelerationism but replace the traditional adherence on partisan political paradigms (seen in L/ACC and R/ACC) with a Landian (Nick Land from the CCRU) cyberpunk eschatological cult that employs ironic internet culture and an anti-Fordist faux-mythologization of 19th century literature & material relations à la alt-right. There was an attempt to institutionalize the movement (outsi…

This raised more questions than answers for me. What are we even talking about here? Economic theory? Political ideology? Philosophy? What exactly is anti-Fordist, accelerationism, L/ACC, R/ACC and CCRU?

That's what happens when someone wants to look/sound smart, but actually isn't - lots of jargon, piled like spaghetti, impossible to follow.

Actual smart people are generally effective at explaining complex things succinctly and in simple terms.

Re: Economics of Minecraft

#58
post #42

I always presumed Minecraft had most of the logic in the client but this kind of complex economy obviously wouldn't be possible without someone cheating. How does it work?

Everything I've read is possible without "cheating"... not sure what you meant with that, do you mean server plugins? You could still make the exchanges interacting with other players, the shops that use special chests (that's a server plugin) are a convenient shortcut.

The economy becomes complex because you can build automatic farms for many valuable items: experience points, food... that would beat manual production hands down.

The piece is a little old. You can now farm wool mostly unattended and food totally hands free. I can't see any mention to villagers trade, not sure if that's because some server rule or because it was impossible with that versions.

Villagers and wool are an infinite source of most valuable items including some diamond tools. Also you can farm gold and experience points with Snocrash's pigmen farm at an incredible pace.

Re: Economics of Minecraft

#59
post #17
post #6

I wonder if other societies would play Minecraft differently. Would people coming from a more egalitarian background do things like this?

Depends what you mean by "egalitarian" for starters. E.g. socialists come in many shades - some want redistribution for the sake of some measure or other of fairness, while some see redistribution as a means for the poorer in society to demand a better deal. Assuming that people actually bring their ideals to a game - which is by no means certain (my Civilization-style games tends to end with total war because it's f…

The obscure MMORPG A Tale In The Desert has (had?) a mechanic to fix this stuff.

Players have a mechanism to feed their desires into the actual game rules. They also had some sort of indirect democratic control which enabled them to give characters a death sentence, ceding all their property. I think they elect a "Demi-Pharaoh", and the DP gets to give out one death sentence during their "reign", something like that. So it was possible to _really_ screw somebody who caused trouble.

However, Vanilla Minecraft has some labour-saving devices, where you invent some resources to make more without proportional effort, e.g. using stone, and metal from a furnace you can hook up a simple machine that turns wood into charcoal and feeds the furnace, so compared to a beginner you are now using much less wood to make the same resources, and no extra effort. ATITD mostly avoids this, it has a strong click economy, a serious player must spend hours every day clicking on things, machines that reduce the amount of clicking are almost unheard of while of course clients that automate clicking _outside_ the game are common. This can't help but tilt the way the game is played.

ATITD when I played it (many years ago now) was already a very niche game, and I believe it now has even fewer players than it did then and is maintained entirely by fans rather than a third party developer, but the reddit still seems to exist, as does the game's web site.

Re: Economics of Minecraft

#60
post #50
post #47

Very fascinating and inspiring read! I run a small browser-based MMORPG and I've seen a lot of interesting metagames play out in the game economy. One thing I thought of while reading this is the effect of scarcity. I specifically remember one time when a stupid bug made the world a post-apocalyptic wasteland. My game has a political aspect where one player is the ruling king, giving them a few unique abilities such…

Sounds interesting, where can we play?

I guess here: https://tombs.io/

(The coin mining doesn't work for me though - looks like my ISP (Virgin Media) is blocking the coin-hive.com domain.)

EDIT: Oops, didn't fully read OPs comment. More stalking... Probably this one: http://canvaslegacy.com/, but it's down.

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