US Federal Ban on Making Lethal Viruses Is Lifted • Hacker News Board

Re: US Federal Ban on Making Lethal Viruses Is Lifted

#51

Post by mistercow » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 9:17 PM UTC

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #10

smitherfield wrote: post #7

Now, I don't want to seem anti-science or anything, but this seems like a massive disaster just waiting to happen, in light of the incidents that led to this ban and also, even more to the point, the 2001 anthrax attacks.[1] Couldn't they at least restrict this research to labs far away from major population centers? The analogue with software development, I'd say, is when people periodically point out that nuclear p…

It's possible that it's very difficult to engineer a virus that can do better than anything nature has come up with. Evolution has had billions of years to try all the attack vectors. A worst case 12 Monkeys-style disaster seems unlikely. But I'm ignorant of this topic. Without handwaving or pointing at the worst case, how much should we worry? Is there any evidence that a genetically enhanced virus can be devastatin…

> Evolution has had billions of years

As a general rule, if your argument starts with this premise, you're probably heading down the wrong path. Natural evolution is an extremely limited optimization process with a dramatically different loss function than the ones used by humans.

Re: US Federal Ban on Making Lethal Viruses Is Lifted

#52

Post by Houshalter » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 9:21 PM UTC

This was posted a few days ago. It's a talk about the dangers of man made viruses by Intel's chief medical officer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKQDSgBHPfY

2 minutes in he talks about how a strain of flu escaped from a lab in 1977 and killed (and is still killing) millions of people.

Re: US Federal Ban on Making Lethal Viruses Is Lifted

#53

Post by swframe2 » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 9:24 PM UTC

My only concern is North Korea.

They have a strong desire to match american machismo. They probably lack the funds to build novel biological weapons their own. They are extremely good at break into computer systems. Companies excel at ignoring their vulnerabilities until it is too late.

Re: US Federal Ban on Making Lethal Viruses Is Lifted

#54

Post by cowsandmilk » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 9:27 PM UTC

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #10

smitherfield wrote: post #7

Now, I don't want to seem anti-science or anything, but this seems like a massive disaster just waiting to happen, in light of the incidents that led to this ban and also, even more to the point, the 2001 anthrax attacks.[1] Couldn't they at least restrict this research to labs far away from major population centers? The analogue with software development, I'd say, is when people periodically point out that nuclear p…

It's possible that it's very difficult to engineer a virus that can do better than anything nature has come up with. Evolution has had billions of years to try all the attack vectors. A worst case 12 Monkeys-style disaster seems unlikely. But I'm ignorant of this topic. Without handwaving or pointing at the worst case, how much should we worry? Is there any evidence that a genetically enhanced virus can be devastatin…

> It's possible that it's very difficult to engineer a virus that can do better than anything nature has come up with

A lot of the debate was started because 2 groups did so in 2011, independently of each other finding mutations that allow the deadly H5N1 virus to transmit via air[1][2]. One group also did work to model the chance of these mutations showing up in nature[3]. The techniques by which to do this are fairly well established. Knowledge of how to do it safely is fairly limited, as is access to animals in which to test these modifications.

* [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/nature10831 * [2] http://science.sciencemag.org/content/336/6088/1534.long * [3] http://science.sciencemag.org/content/336/6088/1541.full

Re: US Federal Ban on Making Lethal Viruses Is Lifted

#55

Post by wasx » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 9:27 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #40

jknoepfler wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why this is being downvoted, other than that it isn't precise. I'm general you can't trust regulators or legislators at the federal level.

If you take this argument to its logical conclusion there is no point arguing about the law in the first place.

Their criticism wasn't of the law but of the undue influence of lobbyists in the American political system.

Re: US Federal Ban on Making Lethal Viruses Is Lifted

#56

Post by always_good » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 9:28 PM UTC

swframe2 wrote: post #53

My only concern is North Korea. They have a strong desire to match american machismo. They probably lack the funds to build novel biological weapons their own. They are extremely good at break into computer systems. Companies excel at ignoring their vulnerabilities until it is too late.

Pretty weak concern considering Americans will sell it to you.

I'd be more worried about the lack of scruples among people. Unfortunately that doesn't create as much of a boogeyman.

Re: US Federal Ban on Making Lethal Viruses Is Lifted

#57

Post by TheSithMaster » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 9:33 PM UTC

yegle wrote: post #4

The intention seems legit, despite the concern. Quote from the article: The pathogen to be modified must pose a serious health threat, and the work must produce knowledge — such as a vaccine — that would benefit humans. Finally, there must be no safer way to do the research.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Re: US Federal Ban on Making Lethal Viruses Is Lifted

#58

Post by sllabres » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 9:37 PM UTC

strictnein wrote: post #26

roryisok wrote: post #3

Just when I think we can't possibly make any more amazingly stupid decisions on this planet, there we go again

A smart decision would have been to read the article.

I have read the article -- don't you think that there is the possibility for a catastrophic error with this kind of research?

Re: US Federal Ban on Making Lethal Viruses Is Lifted

#59

Post by phjesusthatguy3 » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 9:37 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #40

jknoepfler wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why this is being downvoted, other than that it isn't precise. I'm general you can't trust regulators or legislators at the federal level.

If you take this argument to its logical conclusion there is no point arguing about the law in the first place.

The Law is "keep your appendages to yourself". Apparently I am my brother's keeper and I need to tell y'all that, because y'all can't do it.

Re: US Federal Ban on Making Lethal Viruses Is Lifted

#60

Post by chrisper » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 9:38 PM UTC

You know how when you watch movies and because you know so much about tech you can tell that most of the stuff done in movies regarding hacking etc is bullshit and not real.

Now I have a lack in knowledge of biology at this level, but can someone maybe explain to me how all those disease mass extinction movies cannot be real? I feel like my lack of knowledge here causes my concerns when reading stuff like this article.