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Netflix and Spotify Ask: Can Data Mining Make for Cute Ads?

nytimes.com

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Re: Netflix and Spotify Ask: Can Data Mining Make for Cute Ads?

#51

Post by mort96 »

disgusting_guy wrote: post #50
mort96 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anonymized data generally is not very anonymous. You can only trust that data is actually anonymous if there exists no non-anonymous dataset with which you can cross reference the anonymized data, and you can guarantee that no such database will ever exist. I'm willing to bet that many "anonymized" datasets are of the kind which could relatively easily be deanonymized, especially datasets which are frivolously used t…

That's an incredibly broad statement; we are talking about what movies people have watched on netflix. What possible non-anonymous dataset could you be cross referencing to de-anonymize it? Even if you could, who cares?

I just responded to my parent comment's premise:

> what is harmful about using anonymised data this way?

Whether it's harmful to use such data when it's not anonymous is a different discussion.

Re: Netflix and Spotify Ask: Can Data Mining Make for Cute Ads?

#52

Post by s4vi0r »

nerflad wrote: post #2

Cute? No. These ads are smug and tone-deaf. Complete disregard for privacy has become the rule rather than the exception on the internet, and these ads practically celebrate that. I don't care if the data is anonymized. I've never had a Netflix account and I've already started building my .flac library back up and will be cancelling my spotify subscription. The convenience of these services is not worth their disresp…

How naive could you possibly be to think that Spotify or Netflix wouldn't have had this sort of data?

I don't see anything wrong with the ads, not because it isn't fucking creepy, but because you'd have to be an idiot to think that they don't have that much data and because there was no personal information shared.

By using these types of services you're implicitly (explicitly? Wouldn't be surprised if it was in ToS) agreeing to have pretty much everything you ever do on their platform collected, and if you're lucky anonymised.

Re: Netflix and Spotify Ask: Can Data Mining Make for Cute Ads?

#53

Post by [deleted] »

disgusting_guy wrote: post #50
mort96 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anonymized data generally is not very anonymous. You can only trust that data is actually anonymous if there exists no non-anonymous dataset with which you can cross reference the anonymized data, and you can guarantee that no such database will ever exist. I'm willing to bet that many "anonymized" datasets are of the kind which could relatively easily be deanonymized, especially datasets which are frivolously used t…

That's an incredibly broad statement; we are talking about what movies people have watched on netflix. What possible non-anonymous dataset could you be cross referencing to de-anonymize it? Even if you could, who cares?

[deleted]

Re: Netflix and Spotify Ask: Can Data Mining Make for Cute Ads?

#54

Post by Spivak »

mort96 wrote: post #24
untog wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's advocate: what is harmful about using anonymised data this way? In an actual "this is how it will negatively affect you" sense? I ask because while I share your concerns (perhaps not to the extent you do) sitting on HN agreeing with each other does little, and neither does cancelling our accounts. What you'd need to do is explain to a vast number of users why this is problematic in very clear terms, and I'm y…

Anonymized data generally is not very anonymous. You can only trust that data is actually anonymous if there exists no non-anonymous dataset with which you can cross reference the anonymized data, and you can guarantee that no such database will ever exist. I'm willing to bet that many "anonymized" datasets are of the kind which could relatively easily be deanonymized, especially datasets which are frivolously used t…

Sure, but what is harmful about the statement.

Dear person, who watched $show $number of times in one $time, $snarky_comment?

Netflix themselves might know who this person is, but there's no way anyone reading the tweet is going to be able to link it back to a specific person. Are you concerned that Netflix can query their own data?

Re: Netflix and Spotify Ask: Can Data Mining Make for Cute Ads?

#55

Post by bogomipz »

bkor wrote: post #48
bogomipz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"The problem isn’t with Spotify. It’s in the contracts between the labels and artists." That's the convenient lie - "Oh we have nothing to do with that, that's between the record label and the artist." The overwhelming majority of Spotify users are free tier users(90 million) not paid users(50 million.)[1] Ad supported streams pay out an even worse royalty rate to artists than the paid user tier royalty rates. And t…

If Spotify gives 70-85% of their revenue to the rights holder then why do you call this a lie? Please explain.

Did you read the rest of what I wrote?

Because the rest of what I wrote explains exactly why this is a lie.

Paying out 75 cents on the dollar does not mean they aren't propping up that corrupt system. Spotify likes to repeat this line about payouts as if it absolves them from any blame in a system where artists can't make money from their recordings.

Re: Netflix and Spotify Ask: Can Data Mining Make for Cute Ads?

#56

Post by JumpCrisscross »

bogomipz wrote: post #55
bkor wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Spotify gives 70-85% of their revenue to the rights holder then why do you call this a lie? Please explain.

Did you read the rest of what I wrote? Because the rest of what I wrote explains exactly why this is a lie. Paying out 75 cents on the dollar does not mean they aren't propping up that corrupt system. Spotify likes to repeat this line about payouts as if it absolves them from any blame in a system where artists can't make money from their recordings.

> Paying out 75 cents on the dollar does not mean they aren't propping up that corrupt system

So...anyone listening to music is "propping up that corrupt system"? If so, that's a nifty moral framework you've got there? Not very practical, though, if it sorts everything into the "bad" pile.

Re: Netflix and Spotify Ask: Can Data Mining Make for Cute Ads?

#57

Post by tomjen3 »

untog wrote: post #16
nerflad wrote: post #2

Cute? No. These ads are smug and tone-deaf. Complete disregard for privacy has become the rule rather than the exception on the internet, and these ads practically celebrate that. I don't care if the data is anonymized. I've never had a Netflix account and I've already started building my .flac library back up and will be cancelling my spotify subscription. The convenience of these services is not worth their disresp…

Devil's advocate: what is harmful about using anonymised data this way? In an actual "this is how it will negatively affect you" sense? I ask because while I share your concerns (perhaps not to the extent you do) sitting on HN agreeing with each other does little, and neither does cancelling our accounts. What you'd need to do is explain to a vast number of users why this is problematic in very clear terms, and I'm y…

Because they are using them to single out individuals (even if those are anonymous) - people expect them to at most use that data privately (ie to see what you probably like) and to have aggregate things (ie this is the most popular $ITEM on weeknights).

And to that that Netflix was condescending and quite frankly rude.

Re: Netflix and Spotify Ask: Can Data Mining Make for Cute Ads?

#58

Post by bogomipz »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #56
bogomipz wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the rest of what I wrote? Because the rest of what I wrote explains exactly why this is a lie. Paying out 75 cents on the dollar does not mean they aren't propping up that corrupt system. Spotify likes to repeat this line about payouts as if it absolves them from any blame in a system where artists can't make money from their recordings.

> Paying out 75 cents on the dollar does not mean they aren't propping up that corrupt system So...anyone listening to music is "propping up that corrupt system"? If so, that's a nifty moral framework you've got there? Not very practical, though, if it sorts everything into the "bad" pile.

>"So...anyone listening to music is "propping up that corrupt system"?"

That's a total strawman and not at all what I said.

I would gladly pay artists more than .001 cents a stream if I could but I can't. There is no option to do that. I actually believe that music is worth more than $9.99 a month.

And in case you hadn't noticed there's not many record store left so the ability to buy hard product that offers artists a better royalty rate is getting harder.

My only other options are to support those artists is by paying to see them live which is the only way most of them are able to make money now. And I pay to see live music all the time. I also visit their merch booth and generally buy something there like a piece of vinyl where all the money goes in their pockets.

The Spotify model is not the only model. Artists largely don't need record labels any more but there is no way alternative where artists can deal with Spotify directly.

Why is that? Because if Spotify announced that they were doing to allow artists to deal directly with them the records companies wouldn't renew their licensing when it came due. So yes they are very much propping up that system.

You might want to look into how how the Spotify model actually works to see why this claim of "we pay out 70% of everything we make" argument falls flat:

https://medium.com/cuepoint/how-to-make-streaming-royalties-...

So no, I created no "piles" or "nifty moral frameworks"

Re: Netflix and Spotify Ask: Can Data Mining Make for Cute Ads?

#59

Post by eridius »

salvar wrote: post #47
eridius wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter if it's made up. At the very least it appears as though Netflix and Spotify are completely disregarding privacy, and that's all that really matters.

Whose privacy has been disregarded here?

I'm talking about appearances. It does not matter if anyone's privacy was actually violated, what matters is the message the ad sends, and that message is "we're looking at the exact viewing habits of individual people".

Re: Netflix and Spotify Ask: Can Data Mining Make for Cute Ads?

#60

Post by alloyed »

Spivak wrote: post #54
mort96 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anonymized data generally is not very anonymous. You can only trust that data is actually anonymous if there exists no non-anonymous dataset with which you can cross reference the anonymized data, and you can guarantee that no such database will ever exist. I'm willing to bet that many "anonymized" datasets are of the kind which could relatively easily be deanonymized, especially datasets which are frivolously used t…

Sure, but what is harmful about the statement. Dear person, who watched $show $number of times in one $time, $snarky_comment? Netflix themselves might know who this person is, but there's no way anyone reading the tweet is going to be able to link it back to a specific person. Are you concerned that Netflix can query their own data?

What if you were the person who watched that show N times, and then saw that ad? It'd be a weird feeling, right?
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