If the relations between free individuals is unmediated, they can interact in any way they choose. So if a group agrees to pool their resources and impose their collective will on others, then you just lost your anarchy. To eliminate "coercive forces", you'd need to ensure that no group or individual can acquire leverage over another.
An Anarchist Critique of Democracy (2005)
51–60 of 88 posts
Re: An Anarchist Critique of Democracy (2005)
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does this model suggest that anarchy might be more tenable in situations of relative plenty? After all if everyone had enough shit there wouldn't be as much cause to take the shits of others? Of course we'd still have to come up with activities to occupy all the "guard dog" will-to-power types when they no longer had good excuse to brutalize unfortunates. My suggestion would be a new violent sport! Since physical fit…
People don't take things because they need them. They take things because it's a biological imperative. Lack of scarcity won't change the nature of an animal whose psyche is the product of millions of years of scarcity.
Evo-psych arguments are always weak, but this one would work slightly better if it were focused on violence rather than property. It isn't as if Homo sapiens evolved in an environment of flatscreen televisions and automobiles. A Neolithic tribe "owned" a couple of arrowheads and a big flat rock for cracking nuts. If they lost those they'd presumably just get some more.
More to the point, we didn't evolve in an environment that included police. Police were invented in the 19th century (for largely questionable purposes such as racism and anti-unionism). For hundreds of millennia before that, we survived without them. It's true that there existed various forces of "authority" over that period, but these were concerned about people taking the authority's shit. A cursory familiarity with history and archaeology convinces one that "coercive and alienating forces" rarely prioritize the interests of the general public.
Re: An Anarchist Critique of Democracy (2005)
#53"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." - Winston S Churchill, November 11, 1947 Source: https://www.winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/the-worst-...
"I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."
"I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes."
"I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion."
- Winston S Churchill
Re: An Anarchist Critique of Democracy (2005)
#54“Democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time“ https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill
Again? People paste that quote everywhere, as if Churchill or whoever said that was some sage with infinite wisdom.
He was also definitely not a good poster child for democracy, given his passion for colonialism.
Re: An Anarchist Critique of Democracy (2005)
#55I thought all Anarchist now just called themselves Libertarians? As a Punk Rock Kid I had Anarchist showing up at shows trying to get people to join the movement. Then all the way through the 90s it go crazier. I can;t tell how obnoxious and violent things got. Now 20 years later they are all Libertarians now. It is safe to say I am not a anarchist nor libertarian but I am amazed how many people fail to see the histo…
First of all, violence is not Anarchism. The essence of Anarchy is non-violence. Google voluntaryism.
So yes, of course real anarchists identify as libertarians, anarchism is the embodiment of libertarian philosophy, especially the non-aggression principal. (NAP)
Re: An Anarchist Critique of Democracy (2005)
#56"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." - Winston S Churchill, November 11, 1947 Source: https://www.winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/the-worst-...
"I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes." "I hate Indians. They a…
Churchill was a straight up racist. He was also indirectly responsible for the Bengal famine of 1942. On being told about the famine, his only response was "Isn't Gandhi dead yet". Of course, it helps that he ended up on the winning side of the war. What confuses me is that his contemporary, Stalin also ended up on the winning side though later on, his deeds[mis-deeds] came to the fore and he is now known as one of the evil men of the last century[atleast in terms of people killed]. Churchill, however, was voted the Greatest Briton of 20th century for some reason.
Re: An Anarchist Critique of Democracy (2005)
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
I respect anarchists for offering thorough criticisms of the democratic status quo that too many people take for granted. I would even like to see a few thousand anarchists start their own society and try to put their theories into practice on an artificial island or something. Even if they all need to be rescued by UN forces at the end of the day, the experiment will provide the rest of humanity with valuable insigh…
I would argue anarchism has been tried in the past, it was simply called feudalism. Since it lead to the Dark Ages, there's not much support for it nowadays.
Anarchy is opposition to arbitrary authority. Wasn't feudalism the opposite of that?
Re: An Anarchist Critique of Democracy (2005)
#58Amazing to see this discussion on HN! Here's another article that I'm pretty fond that explores how modern democracy has failed us and what we might be better off with in its place:
https://crimethinc.com/2016/04/29/feature-from-democracy-to-...
Re: An Anarchist Critique of Democracy (2005)
#59> Anarchists believe in unmediated relations between free individuals, the absence of any coercive or alienating forces in societies, and an unquestionable, universal right to self-determination. If that sounds difficult to implement, I agree! I'm an anarchist because I think the principles so succinctly put are a good pole star for my personal life. At the scale of society I see Marxism as just as important. How to…
I respect anarchists for offering thorough criticisms of the democratic status quo that too many people take for granted. I would even like to see a few thousand anarchists start their own society and try to put their theories into practice on an artificial island or something. Even if they all need to be rescued by UN forces at the end of the day, the experiment will provide the rest of humanity with valuable insigh…
> I would even like to see a few thousand anarchists start their own society and try to put their theories into practice
There have already been many experiments in anarchy. They are usually not widely known, probably because the powers that be don't want people to be getting too many ideas. Most experiments get crushed by state power and don't last long.
Some famous examples include:
- Rojava Kurdistan in Northern Syria. This is a region of several autonomous communities, together comprising several million people, all self-determined but federated together with common values. Technically not anarchist but "Democratic Confederalist" - a new ideology proposed by former Marxist leader of Kurdish Worker's Party, Ocalan, who was inspired by anarchist Murray Bookchin. These are the guys with the female YPJ military that were kicking ISIS ass. This region is under heavy threat from Turkey and others and the international community refuses to recognise it, making trade difficult.
- Christiania in Copenhagen. This one is still going and has made deals with the state that result in some compromise but allowed them to maintain their autonomy. There are many similar squats/communes to this across Europe.
- Parts of Chiapas, Mexico. Somewhat under autonomous control by the Zapatistas
- Catalonia during the Spanish civil war. Taken advantage of by other socialists and the USSR and ultimately crushed by Franco.
- Ukraine Free Territory during the early stages of the Russian revolution. Eventually taken over by the soviets.
None of these situations needed rescuing from UN forces. It's usually the same people who make up the UN that are actually the ones that cause their experiment to fail.
Re: An Anarchist Critique of Democracy (2005)
#60> Anarchists believe in unmediated relations between free individuals, the absence of any coercive or alienating forces in societies, and an unquestionable, universal right to self-determination. If that sounds difficult to implement, I agree! I'm an anarchist because I think the principles so succinctly put are a good pole star for my personal life. At the scale of society I see Marxism as just as important. How to…
> At the scale of society I see Marxism as just as important. what'd I just read? I think it was something like "100 million people died in the 20th century" because Marxism [1] > How to make a political program out of anarchism? nah bruh... the article is explicit: > We are anti-political because we are interested in the self-organization of the power of individuals. This tension towards self-organization is complet…
the 100 million meme seems like such lame propaganda. when stalin starved ukraine, were those deaths "because of communism"?