Nike’s Two Hour Marathon Attempt • Hacker News Board

Re: Nike’s Two Hour Marathon Attempt

#51

Post by imglorp » Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 8:06 PM UTC

pewpewlasergun wrote: post #28

imglorp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to talk about that and see what people thought about barefoot running: either completely unshod or very minimal padding for protection only and not for landing cushion/support. For better or worse, barefoot forces you to adopt a different gait. Stride length is reduced and landing is shifted more mid/fore-foot instead of heels. Now, can you do this in padded shoes? Sure. You just don't have much choice when…

How do you deal with blisters? I tried barefoot running, made it about 1/10th of a mile, and had to walk back on my heels because my feet were raw and bleeding. I had large blisters for a few days after.

Not an expert, but I think this means your foot is sliding across the ground.

I do not develop blisters nor callouses because the feet are not landing hard and they're not sliding.

A couple of observations then. First, you can't bring your old form and start cold. Be prepared to work up to it by walking and gradually adding running. Second, the new form involves a more bent-knee, hopping, springy aspect. This vid was very helpful for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jio7DK15Q1E

It's funny that we learn how to run in diapers and then spend decades learning again.

Re: Nike’s Two Hour Marathon Attempt

#52

Post by pmahoney » Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 8:06 PM UTC

appleiigs wrote: post #43

olivermarks wrote: post #29

Speaking as someone who has run a lot of marathons and half marathons, it would be more honest to describe this project as attempting to have a human run 26.2 miles in under 2 hours in perfect, laboratory like conditions. It's a little insulting to marathon runners to claim this is a 'marathon' IMO. Long but fascinating article though...

I don't know why runners are so snobby when it comes things like this. What if it was an official marathon where they run with very strong winds at their back. Would you consider that achievement worse than perfect lab like conditions? It's a certain distance, by foot. That's it. I also see snobbishness and even anger toward run-walkers. Even if they do the same distance in the same conditions.

I wouldn't disagree that snobbishness is present in the running community, but there are standards that must hold for a course to be "record-eligible" (by the dominant athletic organizations). In sprints on a track, this includes the wind. I'm not sure if distance events include wind. But marathon courses must start and end "near" the same location (be a loop course, more or less) to avoid being wind-aided the entire time, and to avoid an overall elevation drop.

The course of the Boston marathon is notable in that it is not record-eligible. It is not a loop, and there is a net elevation drop. In 2011, there was a tailwind at Boston, resulting in abnormally quick times, including Ryan Hall's 2:04:58, which would have been an American record, but is not due to the course [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Hall_(runner)#Sub-2:05:00...

Re: Nike’s Two Hour Marathon Attempt

#53

Post by hjjiehebebe » Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 8:09 PM UTC

j4ship wrote: post #22

ng-user wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing how people don't even open the article isn't it? edit: opening it is the easy part, reading however proves challenging for some

what article? all i see are comments ... nice juicy comments

I upvoted you. Sometimes we need a laugh.

Re: Nike’s Two Hour Marathon Attempt

#54

Post by olivermarks » Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 8:10 PM UTC

appleiigs wrote: post #43

olivermarks wrote: post #29

Speaking as someone who has run a lot of marathons and half marathons, it would be more honest to describe this project as attempting to have a human run 26.2 miles in under 2 hours in perfect, laboratory like conditions. It's a little insulting to marathon runners to claim this is a 'marathon' IMO. Long but fascinating article though...

I don't know why runners are so snobby when it comes things like this. What if it was an official marathon where they run with very strong winds at their back. Would you consider that achievement worse than perfect lab like conditions? It's a certain distance, by foot. That's it. I also see snobbishness and even anger toward run-walkers. Even if they do the same distance in the same conditions.

@appleiigs tailwinds typically make official time records illegal http://running.competitor.com/2012/04/news/should-the-boston...

Re: Nike’s Two Hour Marathon Attempt

#55

Post by hjjiehebebe » Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 8:12 PM UTC

stonewhite wrote: post #50

zjaffee wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original definition of a marathon involves running from Athens to Marathon in Greece, and when your average person thinks of a marathon, they think of the street races that happen all around the world. Marathon running isn't necessarily a track and field sport in the way the 100 meter sprint is.

It is the other way around; running back from Marathon to Athens. The story takes place after Athenian Hoplites pushes back a Persian army into their ships at the Marathon shores, after which this ship sails to Athens to wreak havoc. Hoplites make the run from Marathon to Athens just in time to defend against Persians and successfully discourage them against further attacks. After the Battle of Marathon, hoplites who…

TIL the Hoplites didn't run an official marathon

Re: Nike’s Two Hour Marathon Attempt

#56

Post by appleiigs » Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 8:28 PM UTC

teamhappy wrote: post #49

appleiigs wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why runners are so snobby when it comes things like this. What if it was an official marathon where they run with very strong winds at their back. Would you consider that achievement worse than perfect lab like conditions? It's a certain distance, by foot. That's it. I also see snobbishness and even anger toward run-walkers. Even if they do the same distance in the same conditions.

> What if it was an official marathon where they run with very strong winds at their back. The courses need to follow certain rules to mitigate the effect of tailwinds, slopes and things like that. That's why Boston isn't eligible for world records. Here's the rule: "The start and finish points of a course, measured along a theoretical straight line between them, shall not be further apart than 50% of the race distan…

Ok cool. Thanks for the information.

But just to address the original comments: "It's a little insulting to marathon runners to claim this is a 'marathon' IMO.".... We do consider the Boston Marathon to be a marathon, right?

Re: Nike’s Two Hour Marathon Attempt

#57

Post by imglorp » Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 8:29 PM UTC

nbschulze wrote: post #46

imglorp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to talk about that and see what people thought about barefoot running: either completely unshod or very minimal padding for protection only and not for landing cushion/support. For better or worse, barefoot forces you to adopt a different gait. Stride length is reduced and landing is shifted more mid/fore-foot instead of heels. Now, can you do this in padded shoes? Sure. You just don't have much choice when…

As someone who ran collegiately and have multiple friends that were Olympians, national champions, and national record holders (quite humbling really), I would caution people from 'switching' to barefoot running. It certainly has its place, but I've heard of too many people trying to make a switch to it only to get injured. The biggest arguments behind it are that 'it's a more natural way to run' and that 'a lot of K…

Yes there's definitely some muscles that need to be built up. Most noticeably for me are the ones on the sides of the foot that control rolling: in a conventional shoe there's a broad heel sole and a ridgid heel cup to give roll support. Without that, your foot wants to roll, even when walking flat. I needed to add some exercises to help supplement, and the ankles are still a little sore. But I'll take sore muscles over tendonitis.

Re: Nike’s Two Hour Marathon Attempt

#58

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 8:42 PM UTC

appleiigs wrote: post #56

teamhappy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if it was an official marathon where they run with very strong winds at their back. The courses need to follow certain rules to mitigate the effect of tailwinds, slopes and things like that. That's why Boston isn't eligible for world records. Here's the rule: "The start and finish points of a course, measured along a theoretical straight line between them, shall not be further apart than 50% of the race distan…

Ok cool. Thanks for the information. But just to address the original comments: "It's a little insulting to marathon runners to claim this is a 'marathon' IMO.".... We do consider the Boston Marathon to be a marathon, right?

[deleted]

Re: Nike’s Two Hour Marathon Attempt

#59

Post by smogcutter » Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 8:47 PM UTC

stonewhite wrote: post #50

zjaffee wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original definition of a marathon involves running from Athens to Marathon in Greece, and when your average person thinks of a marathon, they think of the street races that happen all around the world. Marathon running isn't necessarily a track and field sport in the way the 100 meter sprint is.

It is the other way around; running back from Marathon to Athens. The story takes place after Athenian Hoplites pushes back a Persian army into their ships at the Marathon shores, after which this ship sails to Athens to wreak havoc. Hoplites make the run from Marathon to Athens just in time to defend against Persians and successfully discourage them against further attacks. After the Battle of Marathon, hoplites who…

This is not correct. "We ran" refers to the hoplite charge during the battle itself, which was notable for being a long run at full tilt (although Herodotus likely exaggerates): http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%...

Here's the mention of "we ran" in Hansen: https://books.google.com/books?id=lAWEPUkz5sIC&pg=PT164&lpg=...

The story of Pheidippides running from Marathon to Athens (and dying on arrival) is certainly apocryphal, but it's nevertheless the origin of the modern marathon.

Re: Nike’s Two Hour Marathon Attempt

#60

Post by gamblor956 » Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 8:49 PM UTC

appleiigs wrote: post #56

teamhappy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if it was an official marathon where they run with very strong winds at their back. The courses need to follow certain rules to mitigate the effect of tailwinds, slopes and things like that. That's why Boston isn't eligible for world records. Here's the rule: "The start and finish points of a course, measured along a theoretical straight line between them, shall not be further apart than 50% of the race distan…

Ok cool. Thanks for the information. But just to address the original comments: "It's a little insulting to marathon runners to claim this is a 'marathon' IMO.".... We do consider the Boston Marathon to be a marathon, right?

They're different types of marathon.

Boston is a real marathon, run on a hilly course in whatever the weather is on the day of the race. This has meant rainstorms, 80+ degree weather, and everything in between.

Nike's WR attempt is an experimental marathon, run on a track shielded from the wind, on a date and time chosen based on the temperature, cloud cover, and wind forecasts to be ideal for human long-distance performance running.