Something to note about the "we're on an exponential (or at least more-than-linear) increase in technology" arguments: They generally need to reach back quite a long time to sound convincing. Yudkowsky makes two arguments about how fast technology or society is evolving: in one he chooses 500 years ago, 1517. In another, he talks about "the last 10,000 years." In contrast, Chollet compares 1900-1950 with 1950-2000. I…
Just for funsies (but may answer your question): every (differentiable) function is linear at a small enough time scale. This includes e^x or pretty much every function you listed.
A Reply to François Chollet on Intelligence Explosion
51–60 of 89 posts
Re: A Reply to François Chollet on Intelligence Explosion
#52Something to note about the "we're on an exponential (or at least more-than-linear) increase in technology" arguments: They generally need to reach back quite a long time to sound convincing. Yudkowsky makes two arguments about how fast technology or society is evolving: in one he chooses 500 years ago, 1517. In another, he talks about "the last 10,000 years." In contrast, Chollet compares 1900-1950 with 1950-2000. I…
In my opinion, the historical record from, say, 1517 (or even 1717) is so full of gaps and inconsistencies that it is impossible to make even an order of magnitude level estimate regarding something like rate of technological innovation (or even world GDP, arguably).
Economists and social scientists are often guilty of this as well - for instance, I really liked the parts of Pinker's Better Angels of Our Nature that dealt with relatively reliable quantitative data from the 20th and 19th centuries. But once he starts talking about things like the An Lushan rebellion or the fall of the Roman Empire, it's a complete mess from an empirical point of view, doing things like taking the numbers of fatalities cited by contemporary participants in an historical conflict at face value. No self-respecting historian would make such big assumptions from such faulty data.
Anyway, I realize this is incidental to the larger argument here but insofar as questions about exponential growth of technology draw on historical arguments, I wanted to throw it out there.
Re: A Reply to François Chollet on Intelligence Explosion
#53Something to note about the "we're on an exponential (or at least more-than-linear) increase in technology" arguments: They generally need to reach back quite a long time to sound convincing. Yudkowsky makes two arguments about how fast technology or society is evolving: in one he chooses 500 years ago, 1517. In another, he talks about "the last 10,000 years." In contrast, Chollet compares 1900-1950 with 1950-2000. I…
We are. Look at the time frame from the invention of the transistor to everyone doing nearly everything online. It's less than the average human lifetime.
Look at the timeline from the first computer program to play chess, to beating chess world champions, to the recent announcement of DeepMind that beat all existing computer programs after teaching itself the game within the span of a few hours.
Look at the timeframe of computer programs that take dictation to programs that automatically translate between nearly all commonly used languages on Earth.
The same could be said for computer vision, computer music, computers driving, and so on.
I think the people skeptical of the intelligence explosion are missing the forest for the trees. Our progress in the last century alone is mind boggling. Certainly we can debate the values of the parameters in the intelligence explosion we're in the midst of, but denying it entirely is silly.
Re: A Reply to François Chollet on Intelligence Explosion
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
sin(x) = x for very small x, this is a useful tool for several proofs.
for all functions, f(x) = f(0) + f'(0) * x for x very close to 0
Re: A Reply to François Chollet on Intelligence Explosion
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, the general AI doomsday fundamentalist argument proceeds as follows: you tell an AI to cure cancer. It can’t, so it spends some time recursively improving itself, then it finds out that the cost of curing cancer is C, but the cost of killing all humans (and therefore indirectly curing cancer) is C’, where C’ If you’re a smarty pants you tell the AI to cure cancer AND not kill all humans. But because the AI is s…
That makes an assumption that there aren't limits on intelligence regimes and that you can just recursively improve intelligence without much friction. That's a very big assumption that has no basis in evidence.
No it doesn't. AI just needs to get smarter than humans for it to be dangerous to us. The costs C and C' the parent comment described can include an upper bound on the cost of the self-improvement needed to achieve each respective goal.
Re: A Reply to François Chollet on Intelligence Explosion
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
"The researchers read the printed report of the solution and decide" ... to implement it immediately. It will save so many lives! They only need to manufacture a few specific molecules to assemble them into nanobots and then ... where is that gray goo coming from?!
I guess that's the risk of blindly trusting AI. Of course, the AI did not forcibly destroy us in that scenario. Trust, but verify. If the AI's solution is so complex as to be beyond human understanding, well, that's a different issue.
The google search result page's source code is, for many individual humans, already so complex as to be beyond understanding. And that's a computational artifact largely produced by other humans directly!
Say you build an AI, and ask it how to win a political election - and it outputs a simple list of reasonable-sounding suggestions of where to campaign, promises to make, people to meet, slogans to use, and criticisms of your opponent to focus on.
Before actually implementing those suggestions, do you think you could be _very_ certain that following those suggestions would result in you winning the election? Or, would it be possible that the AI understood social dynamics so much better, that it gave you a list of instructions that seemed mostly reasonable, but actually result in your opponent winning in a landslide? Or the country undergoing revolution? Or, you winning, along with a surprising social trend of support for funding AI research?
Re: A Reply to François Chollet on Intelligence Explosion
#57The more I read about this, the more I think we should stick to narrow AI. If you don't want your cancer research bot to take over the world, don't give it general reasoning capability. Goal alignment seems incredibly fragile in comparison.
It's silly because it ignores all of the mechanisms required for the doomsday scenario. You need some automated killing machine of some sort and if it hasn't been built, then an AGI would have to compel some non-AGI entity to build it or somehow takeover the construction of such a machine.
Are you still living the in 50s? A large percentage of our manufacturing capacity is automated already, and will become progressively more automated.
Furthermore, we don't need face to face meetings to agree on specs and sign manufacturing contracts. It's largely electronic these days. AI can do all of these things remotely, but this is neither here nor there, because the Terminator-style killing machine war is a juvenile doomsday fantasy.
A smart AI would just tweak some formulas and contaminate the most common food pesticides and drugs used around the world to slowly poison or sterilize anyone who takes them. One generation later, virtually no humans left, AI wins.
AI is already helping medical treatment and drug design. Are you feeling queasy yet?
Re: A Reply to François Chollet on Intelligence Explosion
#58Something to note about the "we're on an exponential (or at least more-than-linear) increase in technology" arguments: They generally need to reach back quite a long time to sound convincing. Yudkowsky makes two arguments about how fast technology or society is evolving: in one he chooses 500 years ago, 1517. In another, he talks about "the last 10,000 years." In contrast, Chollet compares 1900-1950 with 1950-2000. I…
> But if we're on a more-than-linear increase, then we should be seeing more and more technological growth in very recent timeframes, not needing to reach back centuries or millennia. We are. Look at the time frame from the invention of the transistor to everyone doing nearly everything online. It's less than the average human lifetime. Look at the timeline from the first computer program to play chess, to beating ch…
Look at the time frame from from the invention of controlled heavier-than-air flight to landing a man on the moon; within a human lifetime and before you were born.
Look at the time frame from the point when the vast majority of the human population lived their entire life within a 50 mile radius of where they were born and when fast transportation and global travel exponentially increased the genetic mixing of humanity; within a human lifetime and before our grandparents were born.
Look at the time frame from the point when information could travel no faster than the speed of a good horse to the time when information could travel across the ocean in the time it took you to saddle a horse; within a human lifetime and almost two centuries ago.
Our progress in the last century is significant, but you over-estimate its importance because you are surrounded by it and have little understanding of the history of technology. Things that may seem trivial or even primitive to you were far more important and world-changing inventions, while a lot of what we currently consider significant advances are only important because, for example, we lived in a time when people played finite games better than machines and were around to see that era end.
Re: A Reply to François Chollet on Intelligence Explosion
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But if we're on a more-than-linear increase, then we should be seeing more and more technological growth in very recent timeframes, not needing to reach back centuries or millennia. We are. Look at the time frame from the invention of the transistor to everyone doing nearly everything online. It's less than the average human lifetime. Look at the timeline from the first computer program to play chess, to beating ch…
> Look at the time frame from the invention of the transistor to everyone doing nearly everything online. It's less than the average human lifetime. Look at the time frame from from the invention of controlled heavier-than-air flight to landing a man on the moon; within a human lifetime and before you were born. Look at the time frame from the point when the vast majority of the human population lived their entire li…
> Things that may seem trivial or even primitive to you were far more important and world-changing inventions
Which has zero bearing on the point I was making, which is that super-linear progress in information technology is all around us. Information tech is all that matters to the question of general AI. Like I said, you're missing the forest for the trees.
Re: A Reply to François Chollet on Intelligence Explosion
#60Something to note about the "we're on an exponential (or at least more-than-linear) increase in technology" arguments: They generally need to reach back quite a long time to sound convincing. Yudkowsky makes two arguments about how fast technology or society is evolving: in one he chooses 500 years ago, 1517. In another, he talks about "the last 10,000 years." In contrast, Chollet compares 1900-1950 with 1950-2000. I…
> But if we're on a more-than-linear increase, then we should be seeing more and more technological growth in very recent timeframes, not needing to reach back centuries or millennia. We are. Look at the time frame from the invention of the transistor to everyone doing nearly everything online. It's less than the average human lifetime. Look at the timeline from the first computer program to play chess, to beating ch…
Someone born in 1900, looking back at their life in 1975, would be like "When I was born, heavier-than-air flight was impossible. Now people routinely fly across oceans at 600 mph, you can travel faster than the speed of sound for admittedly a lot of money, and we've gone to the motherfuckin' moon. Vast swathes of work has been automated, to the point where we essentially ended an entire industry (personal servants). Automobiles went from being curiosities to something that even poor people have and use every day. We split the atom, we brought women into the workforce, we invented electronic computers, we invented radar, we turned radio from a science project to TVs that every family have. We invented antibiotics and childhood mortality fell by some enormous percentage."
"You're very impressed that computers went from 'pretty good at playing chess' to 'extremely good at playing chess' in just 20 years. Maybe you're the one who's missing the forest for the trees."