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US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

bbc.com

51–60 of 123 posts

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This bill doesn't fundamentally change very much besides the corporate tax rate, so the explosive reaction seems unnecessary. You aren't going to get a million people in the street because their tax bill went up, or down, several hundred dollars, which is what this amounts to for most people.

The elimination of the State and Local Tax deductions will be huge for California and New York.

They weren't eliminated, but ended up capping them at $10k.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to understand why protesting can be inneffective, I highly recommend "Twitter and Tear Gas" by Zeynep Tufekci ( https://www.twitterandteargas.org/ with CC version available - but buy it!). One important factor: protests are only effective if they demonstrate the ability of the movement to affect elections. There are multiple reasons why the senate is not concerned and they're all... highly concerning.

> One important factor: protests are only effective if they demonstrate the ability of the movement to affect elections. There are multiple reasons why the senate is not concerned and they're all... highly concerning. Indeed. Furthermore an angry mob literally at the foot steps of the capitol. For a month. Angry as shit crowd. They need to pass through you. There aren't enough cops to arrest all of you in the entiret…

There is merit to this idea and it has the potential to be highly effective but also highly destablizing, in both positive and negative ways.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#53
post #12

What a horrible process. You don't get good legislation written by ramming it through without time to evaluate the consequences of the law.

"We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it away from the fog of the controversy."

A comment about a bill that took almost a year to draft and which was passed under regular order. And now hypocrites who used that quote to attack Pelosi are supporting this abominable bill, which was passed without any kind of analysis and without even the slightest pretense that anyone voting for it had read it.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#54

One of the problems of US is the fact that protesting is virtually impossible. Unless there are 1,000,000 people in the streets of DC for two weeks, no one will care. Protesting in your city has little impact on the federal level. Also The general lack of public spaces makes it hard. And the fact that the police cracks down pretty hard on things after the first display of some sort of "disobedience". Look at the phot…

What do you want to demand? More taxes? You do not need police state. You are living in an Orwellian state of mind!

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#55
post #18

The law making process is so clearly broken. I see this as a contributing factor to the long gradual decline of the role of the USA in the world. The reemergence of China should be engendering a positive spirit of lifting the game, not a money grabbing exercise. If you can’t make evidence based laws for the people then society will be warped into some dysfunctional dystopian end game.

Following your logic, China is better off because instead of having one party protesting but failing to reject a law promoted by the elections-winning other party, it's just better to have one single party control everything. Sorry but I find this just mindblowing.

The person you replied to does not say that China's political system is better in any way, simply that if such a system (single party authoritarian government) can out develop the US then there must be some serious improvements to be had for the US's democratic system.

In other words, if China can give their people what they want without fair elections or due process or freedom from corruption then our democratic system which ostensibly includes those things must be seriously broken. That does not mean authoritarianism is better. At least that's how I read the comment.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#56

One of the problems of US is the fact that protesting is virtually impossible. Unless there are 1,000,000 people in the streets of DC for two weeks, no one will care. Protesting in your city has little impact on the federal level. Also The general lack of public spaces makes it hard. And the fact that the police cracks down pretty hard on things after the first display of some sort of "disobedience". Look at the phot…

Protest what? Trump could pardon a turkey and it would seem to inspire riots.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#57

One of the problems of US is the fact that protesting is virtually impossible. Unless there are 1,000,000 people in the streets of DC for two weeks, no one will care. Protesting in your city has little impact on the federal level. Also The general lack of public spaces makes it hard. And the fact that the police cracks down pretty hard on things after the first display of some sort of "disobedience". Look at the phot…

> protesting is virtually impossible

And look how fast the discussion of an issue (this post) of this gravity is quickly flagged into invisibility.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#58

The law making process is so clearly broken. I see this as a contributing factor to the long gradual decline of the role of the USA in the world. The reemergence of China should be engendering a positive spirit of lifting the game, not a money grabbing exercise. If you can’t make evidence based laws for the people then society will be warped into some dysfunctional dystopian end game.

To a large extent, the broken parts of US politics stem from the lack of actual written rules. Many things that should be codified are actually "gentlemen's agreements", where people agree to act in good faith. Today's show on the Senate floor was the logical conclusion of an entire political party deciding to break every aspect of that unstated agreement,

Oh right and Obamacare didn’t do the exact same thing? What goes around..

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard operating procedure when American oligarchs feel threatened is war and racial/ethnic/religious division to distract the rubes. So probably quite a few people should be worried. I like your optimism though.

This sort of thing has been used for the last 40 years and its effectiveness is drawing to an end. Nobody believes anything the oligarchs say anymore. You can only pull on a rubber band for so long before it eventually breaks and smacks you in the face. The band is now very, very tight. The next economic downturn risks unleashing something that no amount of money can control.

> Nobody believes anything the oligarchs say anymore.

And yet Donald Trump was elected president.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One important factor: protests are only effective if they demonstrate the ability of the movement to affect elections. There are multiple reasons why the senate is not concerned and they're all... highly concerning. Indeed. Furthermore an angry mob literally at the foot steps of the capitol. For a month. Angry as shit crowd. They need to pass through you. There aren't enough cops to arrest all of you in the entiret…

There is merit to this idea and it has the potential to be highly effective but also highly destablizing, in both positive and negative ways.

Some destabilization is possibly needed. Like you have to raise to rebuild.
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