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A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

washingtonpost.com

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Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#51

Post by Analemma_ »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #48
Analemma_ wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you only allowed to criticize capitalism if you own no possessions and live in a hut in the woods you built yourself?

If you're going to criticize it you need to propose something better. Marxism demonstrably isn't it.

> If you're going to criticize it you need to propose something better.

No, I don't. This is nonsense. "How should society be run" is an unfathomably complex problem, possibly the problem of our entire existence. Of course I don't have the complete answer. That does not preclude noticing the myriad problems with the current system, to suggest it does is a complete non sequitur.

> Marxism demonstrably isn't it.

Holy fallacy of the excluded middle, Batman! Where did I say I was a Marxist? I'm a confiscatory-tax-supporting democratic socialist who _agrees with you_ that Marxism was a disaster. But keep on trucking with your false dichotomy where you either love crony capitalism or you're a Marxist. It doesn't seem to be working on Millenials.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#52

Post by dv_dt »

brucephillips wrote: post #38
dv_dt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communist dictatorships don't have the characteristic power structure of a close circle of oligarchs that overall decide policy?

...who aren't chosen by the people. That's the defining characteristic.

Neither are the oligarchs in America.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#53

Post by holydude »

r00fus wrote: post #21
d1zzy wrote: post #16

I grew up in a Communist dictatorship in Eastern Europe. Capitalism is far from being perfect but it was much better for my friends and I than communism. It wasn't as good for older people that lived most of their life in the previous regime tho (but we cannot say how capitalism would have treated them if they haven't had lived almost all their lives in communism). I do not know what the solution to capitalism's prob…

Does democratic socialism not have a place in your solution set? The idea that stakeholders >= shareholders should be enshrined in our governing policy. Capitalism has a flaw in that if it isn't actively maintained (i.e., anti-trust, regulations, tariffs to prevent abuses) it simply becomes oligarchy (USA is an oligarchy in all but name).

Social democracy cannot be replicated in countries like USA or Eastern Europe. It has had been abused in Eastern Europe to maintain communism 2.0.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#54

Post by dang »

Analemma_ wrote: post #13

This sure disappeared from the front page in a hurry. Here’s your scheduled reminder that, no matter what benevolence they claim, a news site run by a venture _capitalist_ fund may not have your best interests at heart vis-à-vis discussions about capitalism.

Come now, we enjoy a good anti-capitalist critique as much as the next citizen. But the community's dislike of dupes knows no bounds.

You don't really think we're ideological control constables do you? I can't imagine a sillier thing to be.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#55

Post by rbanffy »

holydude wrote: post #53
r00fus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does democratic socialism not have a place in your solution set? The idea that stakeholders >= shareholders should be enshrined in our governing policy. Capitalism has a flaw in that if it isn't actively maintained (i.e., anti-trust, regulations, tariffs to prevent abuses) it simply becomes oligarchy (USA is an oligarchy in all but name).

Social democracy cannot be replicated in countries like USA or Eastern Europe. It has had been abused in Eastern Europe to maintain communism 2.0.

> Social democracy cannot be replicated in countries like USA or Eastern Europe

Why?

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#56

Post by owebmaster »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #8
Analemma_ wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you only allowed to criticize capitalism if you own no possessions and live in a hut in the woods you built yourself?

Only if you also hand built all the tools for building said hut and also also did not learn how to do any of that from instructions on websites or YouTube videos. ;)

What happen to capitalists without capital who uses iphones built in communist States?

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#57

Post by pvg »

dang wrote: post #54
Analemma_ wrote: post #13

This sure disappeared from the front page in a hurry. Here’s your scheduled reminder that, no matter what benevolence they claim, a news site run by a venture _capitalist_ fund may not have your best interests at heart vis-à-vis discussions about capitalism.

Come now, we enjoy a good anti-capitalist critique as much as the next citizen. But the community's dislike of dupes knows no bounds. You don't really think we're ideological control constables do you? I can't imagine a sillier thing to be.

We won't know until the posters organize to take over the means of moderation and consign you to the ash-heap of comment history!

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#58

Post by owebmaster »

brucephillips wrote: post #20
Analemma_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (I'm assuming you're not posting from North Korea) all live in a capitalist society, so virtually all the products we use are "made with profit incentive". Since it is not possible to live in society without consuming any products, your definition of a "hypocritical" capitalist critiquer implicitly includes all of them - which makes it useless as a definition, as it carries no informational content.

But many products would exist without profit incentive. This isn't a thought experiment. East Germany had bread and houses. They didn't have iphones. If you want the iphone, you have to accept profit incentive.

The same way if you want a welfare state you have to accept taxes.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#60

Post by holydude »

rbanffy wrote: post #55
holydude wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social democracy cannot be replicated in countries like USA or Eastern Europe. It has had been abused in Eastern Europe to maintain communism 2.0.

> Social democracy cannot be replicated in countries like USA or Eastern Europe Why?

Because of mentality and being very prone to the too much free power makes one too cocky. We can actually see how it works when corporations get lazy and mismanage very hard.
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