Gödel, Escher, Bach: A Mental Space Odyssey • Hacker News Board

Re: Gödel, Escher, Bach: A Mental Space Odyssey

#51

Post by michael_dorfman » Sat, Aug 07, 2010, 9:48 PM UTC

kevbin wrote: post #48

michael_dorfman wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Shakespeare says, "the readiness is all." It's one of those books that needs to find you at the right moment-- if you are not ready for it, some of it can seem like an odd mix of nonsense and hard work. If, on the other hand, you come to it after an advanced education in many of the topics, you might find it slight. I re-read it, and Metamagical Themas a couple years ago, and was pleased to find how well it held u…

Totally agree about GEB. But I never understood what I was supposed to get out of Pirsig's Zen and the Art of... I always felt like I was missing something that everyone else connected with. Do you remember what you connected with in it?

I was a young teenager when I read it, and had not yet read Plato, Aristotle, or any Zen, so it was a nice eye-opener, but quickly superseded.

I'm guessing "The Matrix" played a similar role for a more recent generation. If you haven't been previously exposed to Philosophy 101, I'm sure it seems pretty profound.

Re: Gödel, Escher, Bach: A Mental Space Odyssey

#52

Post by presidentender » Mon, Aug 09, 2010, 1:43 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #43

presidentender wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get Goedel's theorem, I'd like to think. I get strange loops, and how Hofstadter would have a field day with our criticism of xkcd and of xkcd's critics. I just know there's still more.

Is there more? Well, yes. I did just try to summarize the book in about 20 words. Are you about 90% of the way through? Yes. The book is written in a style to make it have the trappings of more depth than it actually has. I actually enjoy it that way and do not mean it as a criticism. (I also enjoyed the Illuminatus! trilogy, which is self-consciously written with somewhat similar motives.) Don't undersell yourself.

It's a Dunning-Kruger trap, carefully laid in pretty prose to catch people like me. I'll never be confident that I've "finished" it. As a consequence, I'll always think Hofstadter is smarter than I am. There's evidence beyond the scope of GEB to support that, of course.

Re: Gödel, Escher, Bach: A Mental Space Odyssey

#53

Post by jerf » Tue, Aug 10, 2010, 11:51 PM UTC

presidentender wrote: post #52

jerf wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there more? Well, yes. I did just try to summarize the book in about 20 words. Are you about 90% of the way through? Yes. The book is written in a style to make it have the trappings of more depth than it actually has. I actually enjoy it that way and do not mean it as a criticism. (I also enjoyed the Illuminatus! trilogy, which is self-consciously written with somewhat similar motives.) Don't undersell yourself.

It's a Dunning-Kruger trap, carefully laid in pretty prose to catch people like me. I'll never be confident that I've "finished" it. As a consequence, I'll always think Hofstadter is smarter than I am. There's evidence beyond the scope of GEB to support that, of course.

What a beautiful way of putting it!

I happened upon the book in my life precisely when it would hold the least mystery, the second year of my graduate studies in computer science. It was fun but by that point in the category of "intellectual fluff" rather than "ow my brain". While I'm sure I have not discovered every last quirky little connection in it, every last pun or every last hidden pattern, I'm also pretty sure I didn't miss any of the main points.

But he's still smarter than me. I can read that book, I could never have written that book.