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The time I was turned away from China

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Re: The time I was turned away from China

#51

Post by khedoros1 »

my_first_acct wrote: post #28
em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #17

> "sign a piece of paper that was written in Mandarin" "Mandarin" is NOT a written language, but rather is a group of spoken dialects in Northern China [1]. The Chinese written language is called "hàn zì" [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_Chinese [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_characters

Disclaimer. I neither speak nor write any form of Chinese, but I've read a bit on the subject. So: Cantonese (to choose one example) is a separate language from Mandarin (or a separate "variety", if you prefer [1]), but it uses the same writing system as Mandarin. Here is a random internet forum that supports the idea that two separate Chinese languages/varieties/dialects are using a single writing system: [2]. If th…

Mandarin is usually written with Simplified Chinese characters. Cantonese is usually written with Traditional Chinese characters. They're "the same characters", but the simplified ones tend to replace certain shapes with simpler versions.

From friends, one tends to phrase things somewhat differently between the two languages/dialects. A phrase in one of them sometimes sounds awkward when expressed with the most directly equivalent words in the other.

So you've got some pretty good clues about whether the original author of a document was thinking in Mandarin or Cantonese when writing it. And also, it's a Chinese government document in Shanghai: almost certainly simplified Chinese characters representing Mandarin Chinese.

Re: The time I was turned away from China

#52

Post by mstaoru »

SeoxyS wrote: post #38
mstaoru wrote: post #11

It is a classic example of "rule by law" which is in full effect in PRC. You're required to register within 24 hours at the "police station", no details of the said station, no opening hours or any further information is given. The process is quite slow, the queues are long, and the officials are visibly irritated every time you come and wake them up from their slumber. Then there are people flying 3-4 times per week…

For immigration purposes, Hong Kong is not in China, and doesn't have the same registration requirements as the mainland.

I meant they're living in China and flying to HK / Korea. Every time you get back, you need to go re-register.

Re: The time I was turned away from China

#53

Post by PakG1 »

AdamJacobMuller wrote: post #47
desdiv wrote: post #7

>The reason, as it was explained to me, was that in 2015 I had broken Chinese law when I failed to present myself to authorities in Beijing when I had visited and stayed at an Airbnb residence on two different trips. Unbeknownst to me at the time — and something that was not communicated by Airbnb — foreigners are required to register at a local police station, but in most cases the hotels where they stay handle this…

> This rule is clearly explained on the back of the immigration declaration form Is this in English/other languages, or just in Mandarin? The only part of this story that I find particularly egregious is the part where he was made to sign a form that was only in Mandarin.

Mandarin is the local rule of law language. All contracts I've ever signed that were dual language say that if any conflicts arise, the Chinese language contract will be the one used to settle the dispute. This is reasonable. You would not have immigration officers in the US telling people to sign documents written in Chinese, would you? For one thing, local officials would be unable to process those papers efficiently. Whether or not lawyers are present who can help ensure due process and explain to the person what's being signed is a completely separate matter from which language should be used.

edit: comments below would cause me to change my thoughts, though I'll leave the above text unedited for history's sake.

Re: The time I was turned away from China

#54

Post by mstaoru »

yorwba wrote: post #21
mstaoru wrote: post #11

It is a classic example of "rule by law" which is in full effect in PRC. You're required to register within 24 hours at the "police station", no details of the said station, no opening hours or any further information is given. The process is quite slow, the queues are long, and the officials are visibly irritated every time you come and wake them up from their slumber. Then there are people flying 3-4 times per week…

> no details of the said station, no opening hours or any further information is given If you are staying in a hotel, you don't need to go to a police station. Otherwise, the person you are staying with should be able to help you find it. > The process is quite slow, the queues are long, and the officials are visibly irritated every time you come and wake them up from their slumber. Not my experience, but maybe I jus…

> Those people presumably have some kind of permanent residence. It would be news to me if that required re-registration after each re-entry.

M-visa holders, business visa holders are required to register with each entry, which is surprisingly misaligned with the purpose the visa entails (visiting fairs, business meetings etc).

Re: The time I was turned away from China

#55

Post by geomark »

desdiv wrote: post #7

>The reason, as it was explained to me, was that in 2015 I had broken Chinese law when I failed to present myself to authorities in Beijing when I had visited and stayed at an Airbnb residence on two different trips. Unbeknownst to me at the time — and something that was not communicated by Airbnb — foreigners are required to register at a local police station, but in most cases the hotels where they stay handle this…

Thailand, where the author said he lives, also has a similar "register at local police station" rule. Even when you live full time in Thailand, if you stay overnight somewhere other than your normal residence you are supposed to report it. Or the hotel or homeowner is supposed to report it. Rarely enforced,except when it's time to make a another big show of cracking down on dirty foreigners making trouble in the country.

Re: The time I was turned away from China

#56

Post by Taniwha »

cperciva wrote: post #49
Taniwha wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I travel from NZ, these days I choose to go through HKG (and visit the Shenzhen markets, in China) to Europe. My normal experience of entering China is always fast and courteous, entering the US is frankly scary every time, lots of questions about what you're going to do - I show the same business APEC card at both borders (unlike China it's not a visa for the US border, the US is not a full member of APEC, but it do…

You're not the only person I've heard say that they avoid the TPAC route because they want to avoid the USA. But I've heard people complain that as much as they'd prefer to avoid the USA the flight schedules are far more convenient. Have you tried the ANZ AKL-YVR connecting to ACA YVR-Europe flights? Canada is far happier about transiting passengers than the USA is. (And if you've tried it and didn't like it, I'm cur…

I don't avoid the US if I need to go there, after all I lived there for 20 years, half my adult life, it's home as much as NZ (and I'm currently near the end of a NZ->US->HK->CN->HK->CN->HK->NZ trip) - getting in is the problem, the process is as I said elsewhere a bit scary, once you are there it's generally a nice place to be

I haven't tried Vancouver, maybe next time - I do prefer long flights that are overnight so to Europe that means with a daytime (or two) somewhere in the middle

Re: The time I was turned away from China

#57

Post by arnvald »

I use the Shanghai visa-free transit occasionally and after going through the police station registration once, I decided to stay in hotels on my next trips.

The registration process took a long time:

- first I had to wait around an hour in a queue, because out of 5 available policemen only one was registering visitors

- the police officer didn't speak any English, and there were 2 foreigners who didn't speak Chinese in front of me

- even though I had a native Mandarin speaker with me, it took at least 30 minutes to register

- the police officer kept asking me for the number of my visa, and didn't understand that I'm on visa-free transit; in the end I provided number of some stamp that I got in my passport while entering the country

In summary, while it was obvious to me that I have to visit a police station unless staying in a hotel, this process is very troublesome. It definitely wasn't designed for Airbnb-era, it is assumed that if you stay at private place, you have host that will help you with the registration process.

Re: The time I was turned away from China

#58

Post by refurb »

sandworm101 wrote: post #35
desdiv wrote: post #7

>The reason, as it was explained to me, was that in 2015 I had broken Chinese law when I failed to present myself to authorities in Beijing when I had visited and stayed at an Airbnb residence on two different trips. Unbeknownst to me at the time — and something that was not communicated by Airbnb — foreigners are required to register at a local police station, but in most cases the hotels where they stay handle this…

Not just china. A few years back I flew from Vancouver to the RSA convention in SF. I was so put off by the hotel that had been booked for me that I didn't check in. That night I got a call on my cellphone from ICE as I had not checked in at the hotel I had listed on my entrance form. Nothing came of it. But they do check on these things.

How did they get your car home number? They typically don't ask for it on customs forms.

Re: The time I was turned away from China

#59

Post by rahimnathwani »

griffinheart wrote: post #48
titanix2 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not at the police station but you still have to register at the ward office when you’re moving to a new city. Also as a "fun" fact, residence cards features the logo of the ministry of justice. Just like if all foreigners were criminal with such a high probability that this minister handle the matter from the beginning.

Sure, also because you're going to pay taxes into that ku (city), and they deal with pension and health insurance, even if you're not a foreigner you're going to have to register. Your residence card gets updated every time you change your address and you do have to go to the ward office for them to update it, but that's hardly "register at the police station". Edit: Most if not all the things we have to do, as forei…

"Most if not all the things we have to do, as foreigners, Japanese also have to do it."

Chinese also have to register at the local police station when they move. It's not just for foreigners.

Re: The time I was turned away from China

#60

Post by est »

andrewjl wrote: post #29
est wrote: post #10

Another typical 'fuck-you' treatment from Chinese authorities. Why a fuck-you treatment? Fuck you. That's why.

How did you get that from officials just enforcing the law on the books?

Which law from which book? To quote from TFA

> The immigration officers explained to me that a new law that had come into effect in recent months meant I was unable to exercise the longer transit visa. My previous visits were not subject to that, I was told. The officials denied my request for details about this new law.

Most of the Chinese "law" are not lawfully legislated and are selectively enforced TBH.

Looks like some kind of special 规定 or 通知 targeted directly towards OP's visa.

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