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Fixing the MacBook Pro

marco.org

51–60 of 132 posts

Re: Fixing the MacBook Pro

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I enjoy butterfly switches so much that I'd be genuinely upset if Apple gave in and changed back.

You’ve also been lucky. Everyone is getting sticky and dead keys on these. I had “B” stick and double press, eventually it stopped after a few more weeks of use, but you can feel a key here and there being a little stubborn. It’s way more fragile than older keyboards.

That's really wierd because I'm told that I smack my keyboard, and I've never had an issue with the keys breaking or becoming dead/sticky. I guess I'm really lucky, but I'm fine with that.

Either way, the butterfly keyboard shouldn't be blamed for a technical failure. The keyboard itself when it's working is perfectly fine to use. Apple justs needs to perfect it until they get it right.

Re: Fixing the MacBook Pro

#52
post #50
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you find the Touchbar actually useful, or are you just indifferent / don't really use it?

I have a $job-provided MBP with the touchbar, and I find it actively evil. I am _constantly_ resting my fingers in the general vicinity of the top row, which triggers F11-type behavior, volume changes, esc-key hits, etc. It is a _damnably_ sensitive gimmick, pressure-sensitivity would improve it, but in general its a solution looking for a problem. In its current incarnation, I do not like it at all.

Where do you rest your hands to be able to trigger it? When I rest my hands I can't even reach that far with my fingers, much less press something by mistake.

edit: personally I rest my palm on my desk when I am using the touchpad, and rest my palms on each side of the touchpad when I am using the keyboard.

Re: Fixing the MacBook Pro

#53
Yes, the keyboard is so disappointing. The plastic of the keys is so thin and harsh it feels so cheap. Yes, I really miss the inverted T arrow keys - my right hand can't orientate itself any more. Yes, touch pad was a mistake - a single tap should change the volume!

Re: Fixing the MacBook Pro

#54

Got a 2015 Macbook Pro. As of today, the E, R, and T keys have all stopped working. Apple wants $500 for a logic board replacement. It was fine when it was just the R key. Sort of. I set up bash scripts to copy-paste "r" to my clipboard, and just pressed command-V instead of "r". But then the T key went out. The other day, I was using my MacBook with an external keyboard sitting on top, and then the whole thing shut…

It is sad to hear your story, and I hope you have great luck in finding a good solution that does not empty your wallet. I really wish that the 5 year "reklamasjon" (roughly translated to claims) period we have in Norway for things that are supposed to last more than two years, caught on globally. It can sort of be explained as a warranty mandated by law, which means we can usually ignore the usual warranties from th…

Australia has a similar arrangement. The wording in the Consumer Law is deliberately vague - something like it must last "a reasonable time", which means a $2000 laptop should last longer than a $300 one. It's not a fixed 5 years.

My Samsung TV I bought in 2012 died this year under normal use, and they replaced it with a new model. The "warranty" was only 12 month. I'm 100% this law is partly responsible for the "Australia tax" but it also means manufacturers can't take shortcuts.

(Apple tried to claim the "reasonable time" an iPhone should last is 12 months, which didn't stand up in court given you could buy them on 2 year contracts)

Re: Fixing the MacBook Pro

#55
post #50
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you find the Touchbar actually useful, or are you just indifferent / don't really use it?

I have a $job-provided MBP with the touchbar, and I find it actively evil. I am _constantly_ resting my fingers in the general vicinity of the top row, which triggers F11-type behavior, volume changes, esc-key hits, etc. It is a _damnably_ sensitive gimmick, pressure-sensitivity would improve it, but in general its a solution looking for a problem. In its current incarnation, I do not like it at all.

When it was announced, there was a lot of backlash, but I thought I'd keep an open yet skeptical mind. Fast forward, I hear mostly indifferent or negative things.

I am very curious to see what Apple does with it going forward. Can they admit it was a bust and move past it? Will they insist it is the amazing innovation they advertised and keep pushing it? Will they get rid of it but spin it in such a way that it was an amazing feature that they've now innovated past?

Disclaimer: I'm generally an Apple fan since getting the first iPhone a decade ago. However I'm struggling to find compelling reasons to upgrade in their latest couple rounds of product releases. Partly, I'm sure, is that getting older I'm not as enamored with having the absolute latest toys to play with.

Re: Fixing the MacBook Pro

#56
post #55
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a $job-provided MBP with the touchbar, and I find it actively evil. I am _constantly_ resting my fingers in the general vicinity of the top row, which triggers F11-type behavior, volume changes, esc-key hits, etc. It is a _damnably_ sensitive gimmick, pressure-sensitivity would improve it, but in general its a solution looking for a problem. In its current incarnation, I do not like it at all.

When it was announced, there was a lot of backlash, but I thought I'd keep an open yet skeptical mind. Fast forward, I hear mostly indifferent or negative things. I am very curious to see what Apple does with it going forward. Can they admit it was a bust and move past it? Will they insist it is the amazing innovation they advertised and keep pushing it? Will they get rid of it but spin it in such a way that it was a…

I personally think if they can lower the price they can justify it and nobody will really care anymore. People only really care because of two reasons:

1) It costs $400 more.

2) It steals their ESC key.

Both of these issues can be solved in due time. I think the hate against the Touchbar itself is completely unwarranted and all that is needed is changes.

Everything new is something to get used to.

Re: Fixing the MacBook Pro

#57
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it was announced, there was a lot of backlash, but I thought I'd keep an open yet skeptical mind. Fast forward, I hear mostly indifferent or negative things. I am very curious to see what Apple does with it going forward. Can they admit it was a bust and move past it? Will they insist it is the amazing innovation they advertised and keep pushing it? Will they get rid of it but spin it in such a way that it was a…

I personally think if they can lower the price they can justify it and nobody will really care anymore. People only really care because of two reasons: 1) It costs $400 more. 2) It steals their ESC key. Both of these issues can be solved in due time. I think the hate against the Touchbar itself is completely unwarranted and all that is needed is changes. Everything new is something to get used to.

Given the complaints about the Touch bar, and also about some of the specs, maybe they're better off ditching it and throwing in some more ram? Who knows

Re: Fixing the MacBook Pro

#58

I've owned a Macbook Pro 2015. I've also owned about 3 different Cherry Blue MX mechanical keyboards. I pre-ordered the new Macbook Pro 2016 when it originally came out. Here's my take after using it for more than 6-7? months (no clue, time goes by): 1) I am extremely happy with the butterfly keyboard. There is absolutely no issues with it for me and it's my ideal keyboard. I honestly do not understand people who say…

> I am extremely happy with the butterfly keyboard Agree. So much so, that I ordered the new Magic Keyboard for desktop use (which uses similar switches) to replace the previous-generation Apple Wireless Keyboard. The new MacBook Pro keyboard is the best I've ever used. My fingers feel like they're flying over the keys. And I've owned all sorts of mechanical keyboards, ThinkPads, and odd devices like the DataHand. I…

I'm here to third this assessment. The feel of the butterfly switch is so much better for long bouts of coding/typing and, in my particular case, improved accuracy.

I think the issue is that the scissors switch encourages typing using the tips of the fingers (deeper key travel) whereas the butterfly keys encourage using the pads of the fingers which reduces exertion and fatigue.

My understanding is that the failure rate for the butterfly keys is "significant [...] but 'less than 5% for sure.'" [0] Marco Ament (thread OP) and John Gruber (Daring Fireball) are proponents of keyboards that take more effort to use, Gruber's favorite keyboard being the Apple Extended Keyboard II. [1][2]

Some aficionados' opinions about keyboards reach heights usually reserved for out-of-production American muscle-car transmissions. [3] Reading the tenor of some descriptions of the action of these old-timey keyboards, e.g.

  > tank but with a more metallic, punchy feel, and an audible note to its
  > astoundingly loud typing sound, [3]
one can practically feel the adoration of these self-identified keyboard nerds for a particular type of vintage keyboard.

I personally prefer subtlety and finesse when I interaction with peripheral devices, so I welcome the move toward shallower key travel.

YMMV

  [0] https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is-ruining-my-life
  [1] https://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/04/16/my-favorite-keyboard
  [2] https://www.flickr.com/photos/gruber/sets/72157604797968156/
  [3] http://www.penmachine.com/2008/04/keyboard-nerdery-apple-extended
EDIT: spelling, punctuation, capitalization, modify adverbial phrase, add adjective.

Re: Fixing the MacBook Pro

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I enjoy butterfly switches so much that I'd be genuinely upset if Apple gave in and changed back.

You’ve also been lucky. Everyone is getting sticky and dead keys on these. I had “B” stick and double press, eventually it stopped after a few more weeks of use, but you can feel a key here and there being a little stubborn. It’s way more fragile than older keyboards.

I’ve had this happen too. But I wouldn’t want to go back to the previous gen keyboard.

Re: Fixing the MacBook Pro

#60
post #34

It’s just super annoying that Apple labels these laptops as “pro” when it seems their focus is thinness/lightness. I don’t begrudge this on the consumer models, but the new MBP’s are so philosophically different from my older machine (expandable, lots of ports, etc.)

Flexibility doesn't necessarily mean portability. Always having to remember to take the right dongle is wasted mental effort. I'd rather lug around a slightly heavier device.

I'm writing to you on a 6.5lb laptop with FireWire, VGA, HDMI, DisplayPort, two 3.5mm audio jacks, SD 5 USB-A and 3 USB-C. And in all honesty, I sort of miss having a 9 pin serial port.

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