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Twitter, It’s Time to End Your Anything-Goes Paradise

nytimes.com

51–60 of 116 posts

Re: Twitter, It’s Time to End Your Anything-Goes Paradise

#51

Can this be summarized as "Twitter, implement censorship because people are saying things we don't like?" I fully understand that Twitter is a company offering a service and they are intrinsically allowed to police content being posted on their platform. The whole point of democratic society in the United States is to allow people freedom of speech and thought. If we limit the discussion of ideas to only popular/acce…

You can say and think whatever you like. Companies giving platforms to hate is not something that democracy requires. It's less "that idea is popular" and more "these people are inciting hatred against other people". I'm baffled that people still repeat this "free speech is important" thing when we're talking about a private service giving an audience to white supremacists.

I believe democratically elected governments should have more power than corporations. Right now, corporations have complete and utter control over the most common and important communications method of our time.

Think about what you're saying: corporations have the power to prevent you from saying anything online. Twitter and Facebook can ban you for your political opinions. Fine, you say: get your own website. Well, we've seen that your registrar, CDN, and hosting providers will also kick you off if they find your speech sufficiently offensive (or if enough pressure comes down on them to do so.) In the end, your ISP can do the same thing. Corporations own the commons we all use. Yes, the FA only protects you from government censorship, but the societal principle of free speech is not so limited. If you cannot speak because every commons is owned by a private corporation, or where any speech can be banned because a mob is threatening to protest you, you do not have free speech in any meaningful sense.

I don't believe the solution to our problems is to blithely conclude that corporations can do whatever they want, it's their platforms, and that anyway, it's about "hate" (who gets to define that?) We need to look very seriously about how communication has evolved since the 18th century and what "freedom of speech" means now, and how to settle it in a way that at least leads to democratically elected institutions having the power to restrict it, rather than corporate overlords.

I would also argue that repression of speech is a contributing factor to the rise of violence. As long as all speech is legitimized, there's a relief valve for despicable beliefs. The Nazi Party was born in an environment where political violence was already commonplace, and where nationalist rhetoric resulted in the nationalists being severely beaten. Consequently, only the most violent and committed people remained, who then organized their own violent mobs. Ultimately, the perception of being "repressed" by both mob violence and the state (the Nazi party was later banned) only lent support by people who felt for the "underdog" and radicalized supporters who felt that legitimate, nonviolent means would never be enough.

Re: Twitter, It’s Time to End Your Anything-Goes Paradise

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To your point, say twitter existed when segregation was accepted as “normal society”, Or pre-lgbt general acceptance.

That's exactly my point. I myself am not racist, nor do I believe in segregation, but does that mean I or others should actively work to prevent the discussion of those ideas? Wouldn't we become just as bad as the people we decry if we tried to suppress their viewpoints?

Yes, and no? Proposing racial segragation is something is highly offensive to non-white people, discriminatory in and of itself. If you're an employer, letting some guy talk about his beliefs in racial discrimination in your workplace is creating a hostile environment for your other employees. If you have any kind of position in a community, you shouldn't allow it there either.

Re: Twitter, It’s Time to End Your Anything-Goes Paradise

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say and think whatever you like. Companies giving platforms to hate is not something that democracy requires. It's less "that idea is popular" and more "these people are inciting hatred against other people". I'm baffled that people still repeat this "free speech is important" thing when we're talking about a private service giving an audience to white supremacists.

Yes. They are not legally required to provide service to anyone. But indiscriminately providing services to everyone (within the laws of your country), without booting people based on a personal agenda, is the ABC of gaining the trust of your users.

But people aren't leaving twitter because they perceive it as favoring one side. People are leaving because they are being flooded with hateful, abusive comments from trolls and their bots. So it seems the key to gaining trust is creating a place where users don't experience rampant abuse.

Re: Twitter, It’s Time to End Your Anything-Goes Paradise

#56
post #27

I'm surprised this is an actual article from the NY Times and not an editorial. Im very surprised any journalist would plead for censorship on the internet.

It's a column expressing one person's (Farhad Manjoo's) viewpoint. It isn't a news article or opinion from the NYT editorial staff.

Re: Twitter, It’s Time to End Your Anything-Goes Paradise

#57
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hate cannot be precisely defined though. Thats the crux of the argument.

Sure it can. It means "intense dislike". If that is directed at an intrinsic property of a group of people, that's hate speech. Example: black people as opposed to smokers.

Very soon that leads to any speech criticizing, say, the capitalists or the politicians in power.

Re: Twitter, It’s Time to End Your Anything-Goes Paradise

#58
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance Tolerance is generally a useful tool for social discourse, but when your "peers" are actively working to recruit and organize a movement to silence/deport/kill your friends it's generally not useful to tolerate that behavior. Tolerance only works when you have at least the smallest and most fundamental amount of social cohesion.

Is there any mainstream movement for reporting legal immigrants? As for illegals, every major country in the world deports illegal immigrants, even good old Canada, to the chagrin of many who thought they'd walk over and be granted immigration status without any further effort.

(I'm assuming "reporting" was a typo for "deporting")

Brexit?

Helpfully Brexit is a multi-faceted movement, so you can't pin down people as supporting or opposing any particular policy. But it seems a large part of it was driven by opposition to "eastern europeans" - who are in the UK legally under freedom of movement.

If Brexit happens without a new rule being introduced, suddenly millions of people who legally immigrated to the UK will become "illegal". (They can try the naturalisation process, which is long, expensive, not at all guaranteed to succeed, and closed to many categories of people)

Re: Twitter, It’s Time to End Your Anything-Goes Paradise

#60
People are getting all caught up on the idea of censorship here but it is really about what Twitter is, and what does it want to be.

Does Twitter want to be a dumb pipe where it doesn't do anything at all about what people post? If that is the case, then yeah, don't do anything about bots, trolls, harassment/abuse, etc.

Is Twitter actually an online community? If that is what they want it to be, then it will need at least some mechanisms to deal with toxic users.

Maybe that's just giving users robust tools for filtering what they want to see. Maybe you could use sentiment analysis to give people the ability to block certain types of tweets from reaching them. And indeed, they already have some of that with the 'sensitive content' setting on images and video.

The author here wants to go further into a reputation system, which may or may not be the right choice for Twitter. That seems to be a harder thing to do technically, but I'm pretty sure they could come up with something that tones down the impact of the worst abuse.

At the end of the day, if a general public social media platform becomes too toxic for too many users, it probably won't survive. And that's not even getting into the real world consequences that we're starting to see from foreign intelligence services attempting to manipulate them.

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