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Zimbabwe's Military in Apparent Takeover, Says It Has Custody of President

nytimes.com

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Re: Zimbabwe's Military in Apparent Takeover, Says It Has Custody of President

#51

Post by katastic »

KGIII wrote: post #38
Lazare wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This doesn't look good. Who for? The situation in Zimbabwe is bad enough that things could hardly get much worse. Worst case, one corrupt dictator gets replaced by a different successor than would otherwise have been the case. It's not like a military junta could be less democratic or more corrupt than the existing regime, after all.

I'd not be so sure. It can almost always get worse.

I thought military coups were a good thing. That's what Hollywood celebrities like Chelsea Handler and Sarah Silverman told us this year.

Re: Zimbabwe's Military in Apparent Takeover, Says It Has Custody of President

#52

Post by erikb »

zimzim wrote: post #21

background: President is old and have succession problems. In recent years his wife trying to grab more and more power to be the next president but not everyone in the ruling party like that. last week she (from the mouth of the president) fired "number 2" in the country. since then everyone who was "friend" with number 2 was fired too. when they tried to get rid of the army general (friend of number 2) he refused to…

Really interested to read more about this. This is really the most critical point of the succession question: Who can get the military to follow him. Both the highest general and the government leader have strong claims for military leadership and there is no pure logical answer if highest general and government leader don't agree. All depends on what happens between the different parties.

Re: Zimbabwe's Military in Apparent Takeover, Says It Has Custody of President

#53

Post by norswap »

zimzim wrote: post #21

background: President is old and have succession problems. In recent years his wife trying to grab more and more power to be the next president but not everyone in the ruling party like that. last week she (from the mouth of the president) fired "number 2" in the country. since then everyone who was "friend" with number 2 was fired too. when they tried to get rid of the army general (friend of number 2) he refused to…

That was my interpretation too, until the end of the article when they said the military men who seized national TV actually spoke harshly of the general close to number 2.

Those were the same military men who said that the military had custody of Mugabe, so it's somewhat confusing.

Re: Zimbabwe's Military in Apparent Takeover, Says It Has Custody of President

#55

Post by WillReplyfFood »

netsharc wrote: post #42
NaliSauce wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose that's one of the UNs weakness in that they lack the ability to enforce a lot of conventions.

A world government with a force would be an interesting concept. Corrupt African states has lead to their citizens fleeing to Europe with EU solutions being band-aids like giving Libyan coast guard ships and money to prevent the ships from leaving Libyan waters, the better solution would be to fix corruption and help development in the refugees' home countries, but the EU governments can't do that, can they (giving t…

We had that- we called it colonialism. And for suggesting that you will be racismed.

Re: Zimbabwe's Military in Apparent Takeover, Says It Has Custody of President

#56

Post by pizza »

netsharc wrote: post #42
NaliSauce wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose that's one of the UNs weakness in that they lack the ability to enforce a lot of conventions.

A world government with a force would be an interesting concept. Corrupt African states has lead to their citizens fleeing to Europe with EU solutions being band-aids like giving Libyan coast guard ships and money to prevent the ships from leaving Libyan waters, the better solution would be to fix corruption and help development in the refugees' home countries, but the EU governments can't do that, can they (giving t…

How many Libyans go to Europe by boat..?

Re: Zimbabwe's Military in Apparent Takeover, Says It Has Custody of President

#57

Post by varjag »

mschuster91 wrote: post #43
NaliSauce wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose that's one of the UNs weakness in that they lack the ability to enforce a lot of conventions.

It worked for those cases where US interests aligned with UN interests. For everything else, not so much.

There is no evidence that UN is a U.S. puppet.

Russia used SC veto 7 times just in last 3 years. The last time USA has blocked any resolution was 2011.

Re: Zimbabwe's Military in Apparent Takeover, Says It Has Custody of President

#58

Post by Lazare »

KGIII wrote: post #38
Lazare wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This doesn't look good. Who for? The situation in Zimbabwe is bad enough that things could hardly get much worse. Worst case, one corrupt dictator gets replaced by a different successor than would otherwise have been the case. It's not like a military junta could be less democratic or more corrupt than the existing regime, after all.

I'd not be so sure. It can almost always get worse.

Sure, there could be a dictatorship, awe-inspiring corruption, brutal repression of political opposition, genocide, hyper-inflation, a famine, and stunning mismanagement of every aspect of the country.

...wait, those are all things that occurred under Mugabe. How much worse can things get? (Mind you, I have no particular reason to think the coup will make things better, inasmuch as it seems to have been conducted by close allies of Mugabe is order to maintain power, rather than a different faction looking to seize it.)

Re: Zimbabwe's Military in Apparent Takeover, Says It Has Custody of President

#59

Post by lgbr »

mrpopo wrote: post #50
lgbr wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the US often acts reprehensibly, such as in the case of Chile, Iraq, and so on, the overwhelming majority of the international influence the US exerts is positive. The entire stability of Europe, Japan, South Korea (although Park Chung Hee was a dictator), and a handful of other countries was built by the US government. Counter-examples are easy to list, but somehow the more numerous positive examples are forgo…

You talk as if I am forgetting the positive contributions of U.S. interventions, but I clearly specified that sometimes the U.S. contributed to democracy, sometimes not. My point was the U.S. did not do this out of pure goodwill, but to preserve their political alliances and world leader position. It is fair to discuss if the global economic growth is slowing or not. I still think that is the case, excluding China, I…

> You talk as if I am forgetting the positive contributions of U.S. interventions, but I clearly specified that sometimes the U.S. contributed to democracy, sometimes not.

You said "It sounds as if the U.S. were a benefactor to the world. It is not...". In the majority if cases, the U.S. has clearly had a positive influence, meaning that it is indeed a benefactor to the world.

> I still think that is the case, excluding China, India and Africa.

Of course by excluding 53% of the world's population, including the country in question, it's really easy to say that GDP growth is slowing, but that makes no sense.

Re: Zimbabwe's Military in Apparent Takeover, Says It Has Custody of President

#60

Post by danmaz74 »

gaius wrote: post #33

Pre-Mugabe Zimbabwe was known as "the breadbasket of Africa" for the productivity of its farms. Mugabe brought economic collapse and famine, while living a life of luxury and stashing billions overseas. Hopefully whoever comes next will be a better leader.

Let's hope so, but this looks more like an internal power struggle from the existing regime, so I don't expect any of the two factions to want real change (except about who gets the power and billions).
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