Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

eff.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 135 posts

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#51

Post by mosselman »

skate22 wrote: post #45
mtgx wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tech is there. This is why comments such "but spy agencies have always been spying, it's their job" have always pissed me off. The spy agencies will continue to encroach on our rights the more "tech is here". We now have "smart" devices with mics and cameras in every room, so they're going to use that. If 30 years from now we'll use some kind of "bluetooth headset" that actually interacts directly with our thou…

When your "right" to privacy starts conflicting with your "right" to safety, something has to give.

Much of the data gathered by agencies to make us 'safe' is alter used for ulterior motives such as tax collection or, much worse, spreading of propaganda of censoring anti-establishment information. The recent events in Spain being an example of the last case. There is nothing wrong with having to pay taxes, but using information that you gain access to by scaring people into giving up by waving terrorism in their face is not ethical and not what many people signed up for.

Also, there are lots of actually effective measures to improve safety that don't involve giving governments direct access to what everyone says and does.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#52

Post by aerique »

ionised wrote: post #37
FRex wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There might be problems with the laws still. I.e. Polish constitution has 'Public authorities shall not acquire, collect nor make accessible information on citizens other than that which is necessary in a democratic state ruled by law.'. There are many techs out there that are quite dystopian (face scans, mass surveillance, etc.) or outright evil (alleged organ harvesting of death row inmates in China) but yet the go…

While a lot of Central/Eastern European countries are wary of this having had history with pervasive surveillance under the Soviets, many are also very nationalistic and right-wing. All it takes is some demagoguery and opportunism to convince the populace that it is in their interests, like what has happened in the UK and US.

They will become less wary over time. The same thing happened in Western Europe: policies which governments didn't even dare proposing a few decades ago (because of experiences in WW2) are now being pushed through without much resistance under the guise of terrorism or child pornography.

I don't even think it's an organized effort to create a totalitarian state but more how such a state will emerge from the interaction between public, media and politics.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#53

Post by StavrosK »

mseebach wrote: post #42
zkms wrote: post #3

They already have this at Gatwick, there's security gates/turnstiles where the system doesn't let you pass until it's scanned your face and associated it with your boarding pass, and IIRC they scanned faces again right before boarding. There's also cameras scattered throughout the airport which have spinning/swirly LED rings around the lens (which look like this: https://www.hrsid.com/assets/images/art/proven-passeng…

I get the dystopian flavour of surveillance in general society -- but I don't really get why it's specifically dystopian that you are recorded by a camera while you stand in line to hand over your government issued photo ID to a government agent with pretty broad discretion to make your day pretty awful. I'm pretty sure those cameras at Gatwick are supposed to track how long the waiting time is, not to "surveil" you…

> I'm pretty sure those cameras at Gatwick are supposed to track how long the waiting time is

Then they did a really good job of making me feel like I'm in the opening scene of Half Life 2.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#54

Post by frostwhale »

mseebach wrote: post #42
zkms wrote: post #3

They already have this at Gatwick, there's security gates/turnstiles where the system doesn't let you pass until it's scanned your face and associated it with your boarding pass, and IIRC they scanned faces again right before boarding. There's also cameras scattered throughout the airport which have spinning/swirly LED rings around the lens (which look like this: https://www.hrsid.com/assets/images/art/proven-passeng…

I get the dystopian flavour of surveillance in general society -- but I don't really get why it's specifically dystopian that you are recorded by a camera while you stand in line to hand over your government issued photo ID to a government agent with pretty broad discretion to make your day pretty awful. I'm pretty sure those cameras at Gatwick are supposed to track how long the waiting time is, not to "surveil" you…

While I agree in general, airports are a bit different. Reading the title of this article I thought, "Good". It's their job to surveil and monitor the airport to the best of technology and law. It is our job to regulate what big brother can and can't do. While security is ridiculously dystopian and over the top, the climate of our world has forced this in airports, so of course they're going to be using all the tech possible. We just need to set the rules for this tech.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#55

Post by dogruck »

megaman22 wrote: post #7

Hey, if it means I can keep my shoes and my belt on going through security, I'm all for it. Anything that is going to actually be effective, and not merely massively inconvenient security theater.

You’ve fallen into the trap. Here’s what happened:

1. Add a bunch of ineffective, but annoying so-called security procedures. Truly annoy people. Take off your shoes and belt!!

2. Offer a way out of that nonsense, in exchange for trading away your privacy.

3. Win.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#56

Post by yardie »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #23
FRex wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There might be problems with the laws still. I.e. Polish constitution has 'Public authorities shall not acquire, collect nor make accessible information on citizens other than that which is necessary in a democratic state ruled by law.'. There are many techs out there that are quite dystopian (face scans, mass surveillance, etc.) or outright evil (alleged organ harvesting of death row inmates in China) but yet the go…

> outright evil (alleged organ harvesting of death row inmates in China) Why is this necessarily evil?

The prime minister needs a new kidney and we’ve found the perfect match. But he is on prison for robbery. Well, just upgrade that robbery to capital offense and kill 2 birds...

Brilliant, Watson! I’ll inform the prime minister’s family immediately.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#57

Post by arbie »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #11
jeffwilcox wrote: post #9

Frankly surprised they aren't doing it already, or at least some other agency. The Europeans seem to be leading when it comes to some of this tech, though at least with GDPR in theory it's a rolling 30-day window of data and not anything too permanent.

What you really going to store permanently? The fact you travelled is already there, either in your passport or in one of hundreds of databases.

Can't a positive match be stored as new ground truth for retraining or reinforcing the recognition model?

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#58

Post by vixen99 »

yardie wrote: post #56
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> outright evil (alleged organ harvesting of death row inmates in China) Why is this necessarily evil?

The prime minister needs a new kidney and we’ve found the perfect match. But he is on prison for robbery. Well, just upgrade that robbery to capital offense and kill 2 birds... Brilliant, Watson! I’ll inform the prime minister’s family immediately.

Yes and of course that only occurs in horrible corrupt states - never in our back yard.

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#59

Post by avs733 »

skate22 wrote: post #45
mtgx wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tech is there. This is why comments such "but spy agencies have always been spying, it's their job" have always pissed me off. The spy agencies will continue to encroach on our rights the more "tech is here". We now have "smart" devices with mics and cameras in every room, so they're going to use that. If 30 years from now we'll use some kind of "bluetooth headset" that actually interacts directly with our thou…

When your "right" to privacy starts conflicting with your "right" to safety, something has to give.

this statement is predicated on the violation of our right to privacy having a significant and causal impact on our safety.

I am something like 100x more likely to get struck by lightning _twice_ than I am to be killed by a terrorist

Re: TSA Plans to Use Face Recognition to Track Americans Through Airports

#60

Post by avs733 »

ionised wrote: post #38
dzhiurgis wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue the spinner is a nice addition, explicitly reminding people are being filmed and to stop them from doing stupid shit while entering the country.

Stupid shit like what?

wanting to enter that type of country
Post reply on HN