Dead People Mysteriously Support the FCC's Attack on Net Neutrality • Hacker News Board

Re: Dead People Mysteriously Support the FCC's Attack on Net Neutrality

#51

Post by tryingagainbro » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 7:15 PM UTC

thephyber wrote: post #39

tryingagainbro wrote: post #27

After saying that, yeah, an investigation is due...maybe laws were broken, but I can say that I used a dead person name as a way to be anon. In the end this should not matter, FCC is not running a vote. If they count pro /against this way then it's their problem. Arguments should be the only deciding factor.

> In the end this should not matter, FCC is not running a vote. Perhaps. But would you expect the FCC to actually sift through millions of stuffed comments just to get to the few good ones? By stuffing the system with trash comments, the submitters effectively guaranteed that the FCC won't bother to read any of the comments.

They are, say 5 interest groups on the corp side and 5 known consumer organizations, each with their own connections and lobbyists.

FCC will get their POV and virtually every good argument, especially in such a major case. The "send your comment" is essentially a sham, making us think we have a voice (that matters)

Re: Dead People Mysteriously Support the FCC's Attack on Net Neutrality

#52

Post by forapurpose » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 7:18 PM UTC

sounds wrote: post #42

Schizotypy wrote: post #40

Why doesn't someone do the same thing but for net neutrality? Just make a bot to spam with fake or dead names in favor of neutrality to balance it out. The FCC apparently won't do anything either way so why not

This is a technically creative approach, and I think the internet's future is unfortunately going to be something like this. But I for one would rather take the high road. Please call your senator(s) and representative(s) and let them know how upset this all is making you!

> the internet's future is unfortunately going to be something like this

It's not the future; it's been going on for a long time. The Chinese and Russian governments have long run large astroturfing propaganda operations, astroturfing by U.S. businesses (and I assume those in other countries) is an old story, and the last U.S. presidential election was swamped by social media propaganda operations, foreign and domestic.

Re: Dead People Mysteriously Support the FCC's Attack on Net Neutrality

#53

Post by shostack » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 7:18 PM UTC

peeters wrote: post #34

charred_toast wrote: post #19

Can we acknowledge we live in a dystopian era yet? What further has to happen?

If we're in a dystopian era, that must be in comparison to something. What era was, on the balance of factors, better than today?

A dystopian era is incredibly subjective in and of itself. I'm sure there are quite a few people in power right now who feel it is the dawn of a new golden (gilded?) age for them.

Re: Dead People Mysteriously Support the FCC's Attack on Net Neutrality

#54

Post by anigbrowl » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 7:20 PM UTC

GCU-Empiricist wrote: post #46

curiousgal wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>messing with our democracy The U.S. has had a flawed democracy regardless of foreign meddling. Americans do not even elect their president directly. Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#Democracy_Inde...

>Americans do not even elect their president directly. This is a design feature, not a bug. The founding fathers would close your trouble ticket citing the federalist papers.

Much as I like the Federalist papers, the idea that the last word on governance was written >200 years ago is foolish. After all, the founding fathers didn't believe in concepts like universal suffrage or standing armies, and yet here we are with both. I wish people would stop citing them like some sort of religious authorities instead of just relatively wise men whose ideas worked well in an earlier era but have since been fetishized to the point of irrationality.

Personally I want to get rid of representative government as soon as possible and move towards a participatory model instead.

Re: Dead People Mysteriously Support the FCC's Attack on Net Neutrality

#55

Post by curiousgal » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 7:21 PM UTC

blowski wrote: post #35

curiousgal wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>messing with our democracy The U.S. has had a flawed democracy regardless of foreign meddling. Americans do not even elect their president directly. Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#Democracy_Inde...

I’m sure you’ve heard this before, but I can’t let the response go unsaid: democracy does not require direct elections. The founding fathers were not naive idiots who didn’t know how to design an election.

No offence by why are the founding fathers put on such a high pedestal in the U.S.? Everything they did had a reason but some of those reasons do not make sense anymore. The electoral college was put in place to give more saying to the south but that's not needed anymore. Gun ownership was put in place to protect from militias but again, that's not the case anymore, why keep all of these laws?

Re: Dead People Mysteriously Support the FCC's Attack on Net Neutrality

#56

Post by forapurpose » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 7:22 PM UTC

cjslep wrote: post #17

nnfy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe that "harass" and "abuse" are well defined? It doesn't bother you that a sizable proportion of mostly harmless messages on Facebook, Twitter, 4chan, etc are suddenly potential felonies? And that they can be used to target innocent individuals by the federal government? What happens when a legitimate whistleblower becomes a problem, and suddenly an angry twitter rant becomes an excuse for arrest?

Your questions are all assuming you are already correct. This won't be a productive conversation if you keep trying to start from there when I've already pointed out how you were originally wrong. Additionally, anti-cyberbullying laws which deal with this exact scenario we are discussing (obscenity with intention to harass/abuse) already exist in nearly all US States, so no I am not worried about our social consensus…

> I've already pointed out how you were originally wrong

I don't see that. The GP accepted your statement, that it requires intent to harass and abuse, and commented on it.

Also, why should the GP accept your analysis? Do you have expertise?

Re: Dead People Mysteriously Support the FCC's Attack on Net Neutrality

#57

Post by pavel_lishin » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 7:23 PM UTC

ShabbosGoy wrote: post #43

sounds wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a technically creative approach, and I think the internet's future is unfortunately going to be something like this. But I for one would rather take the high road. Please call your senator(s) and representative(s) and let them know how upset this all is making you!

How about ditching Web 2.0 entirely? It's time to head to Web 3.0, an era where the Internet will be truly decentralized and free.

Will it be unicorn-fart powered, or are you thinking some sort of genie-based system?

Re: Dead People Mysteriously Support the FCC's Attack on Net Neutrality

#58

Post by anigbrowl » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 7:27 PM UTC

deadmetheny wrote: post #45

charred_toast wrote: post #19

Can we acknowledge we live in a dystopian era yet? What further has to happen?

People have to have a measurably worse life now than they did before, for one. "I don't like President Trump" isn't a valid response, even if he is an idiot.

There's a massive amount of economic documentation on wage stagnation just for starters. This is of course open to challenge or refutation, but bashing straw men does nothing to advance discussion.

Re: Dead People Mysteriously Support the FCC's Attack on Net Neutrality

#59

Post by anigbrowl » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 7:29 PM UTC

nnfy wrote: post #4

I'd just like to point out, hopefully without being accused of shilling, that part of Net Neutrality legislation involves the quiet reclassification of ISPs as title ii common carriers. These are regulations designed for phone companies in the 1930s. Why should you worry? Because all network traffic will be subject to extremely broad obscenity laws. I will try to find the legislation shortly, but effectively, causing…

People are already aware of this, and furthermore arguments over obscenity standards can be heard on their own merits, as has been the case for many decades already. They're not beyond challenge.

Re: Dead People Mysteriously Support the FCC's Attack on Net Neutrality

#60

Post by labster » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 7:30 PM UTC

peeters wrote: post #34

charred_toast wrote: post #19

Can we acknowledge we live in a dystopian era yet? What further has to happen?

If we're in a dystopian era, that must be in comparison to something. What era was, on the balance of factors, better than today?

It is the best of times, it is the worst of times. It is the age of rationalists, it is the age of complete morons in government. It is the epoch of incredulity, it is the epoch of fake news.