Live data from Hacker News

Boustrophedon

en.wikipedia.org

51–60 of 62 posts

Re: Boustrophedon

#51
post #24
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the standardization of directions, rather than boustrophedonic writing, is due to the technology of paper and ink. If you're carving into stone or clay, then your hand isn't as likely to smudge the already written text.

I used to think that, but a bit of reflection puts that to bed: 1 - The earliest ink-and-paper writing in the Middle East was in Egypt, where the pen writing mostly followed inscription, being a little free form in ordering. AFAIK the old language didn't acquire an alphabetic system until Greek colonization (cf Coptic, which is (evolved) pharaonic Egyptian written with essentially Greek characters). That latter is in…

> Your hand is likely to smudge R-L systems unless you're left handed which most people are not

Arabic was originally read Right-to-Left, but written Top-to-Bottom, leftwards, on the scroll so smudging by right-handed writers wasn't an issue. A completed scroll was then hung sideways on the wall for people to read. In fact, by writing Arabic T-B(leftwards) instead of L-R(downwards in columns) like Greek was at the time, smudging became less of an issue. The Arabs could roll up the left side of their scroll sooner without smudging or pausing, whereas the Greeks had to leave the entire column they'd just written exposed while the ink on the bottom rows was drying.

Re: Boustrophedon

#53
post #32
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A sibling comment suggests that it's to help encode the direction, but I wonder if there's a less intentional reason, which is: why not mirror the letters? If I were coming up with conventions for reading and writing for the first time or possibly based on descriptions that some sailor had reported, it's not obvious to me that the direction of the letter should matter, especially if the letters you are using aren't m…

Exactly. And I think the idea to encode direction is a bit anachronistic, in those days they didn't even use punctuation or spaces so it was pretty hard to read anyway, you'd have to do a lot of thinking. And of course with Semitic writing you didn't even encode the vowel sounds. In hieroglyphic inscriptions the animals etc do face the direction of reading (which varies), but I'm not sure this was in order to help pe…

> it was pretty hard to read anyway

Yes, and they did not invent the space character back then.

the wrtng looks like ths tht my couisn just writes andgets mad if i dont understn him

Re: Boustrophedon

#54
post #22

I first encountered the word in the excellent book, Expert C Programming, by Peter van der Linden, who explained that declarations in C are read boustrophedonically.

I encountered "boustrophedon" a long time ago because it is one of the favorite words of the creator of the niche-but-awesome phrontistery.info

http://phrontistery.info/favourite.html

Re: Boustrophedon

#55
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it surprisingly easy to read the mirrored examples in the article. I think it may be more comfortable -- after a while, at least -- to read the mirrored letters; because we don't read letter-by-letter anyway and the "word image" is intact (just mirrored). Here's the example image (with mirrored letters): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boustrophedon#/media/File:Bous... And here's a non-mirrored version: THIS EX…

You raise a good point in that we don't read letter-by-letter anyway. So, this variant, which leverages recognition of whole words at a time, would have the line tracking advantage of Boustrophedon without the problem of duplicating letters for forward and reverse directions: THIS EXAMPLE OF BOUSTROPHEDON TEXT WAS WIKIPEDIA THE FOR SPECIFICALLY WRITTEN ARTICLE ON THIS OX TURNING METHOD OF ANCIENT IN TEXT WITH WALL A…

Problem here is that if you enter mid-page it's not necessarily obvious which direction to read.

Re: Boustrophedon

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You raise a good point in that we don't read letter-by-letter anyway. So, this variant, which leverages recognition of whole words at a time, would have the line tracking advantage of Boustrophedon without the problem of duplicating letters for forward and reverse directions: THIS EXAMPLE OF BOUSTROPHEDON TEXT WAS WIKIPEDIA THE FOR SPECIFICALLY WRITTEN ARTICLE ON THIS OX TURNING METHOD OF ANCIENT IN TEXT WITH WALL A…

Problem here is that if you enter mid-page it's not necessarily obvious which direction to read.

But you can figure it out trivially easily based on which way the letters are flipped.

Re: Boustrophedon

#59
post #57

More or less the ancient Greeks - in their simplicity - chose to use ASCII 10 (newline/line feed) instead of 13+10 (carriage return+line feed). ;-) https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-great-newline-schism/

>Even if you rule out unicode and stick to old-school ASCII, like most Facebook relationships … it's complicated.

Brilliant, encoding problems in an article about encoding!

Post reply on HN