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Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

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Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#51
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really it's very easy to build your own web application framework these days, existing web application frameworks look an easy solution for beginning your project but they become a burden gradually as your project grows. Really it's very easy to build your own database software these days, database servers look an easy solution for beginning your project but they become a burden gradually as your project grows. Reall…

These comparisons are incredibly dishonest.

I don't think so, and depending on your familiarity with the topic, your opinion might be different too.

Creating a web application framework that handles your needs can be incredibly easy. I can, and have multiple time, done so in Perl for a quick project in the distant past. It takes about 20-30 lines or so on top of loading the modules you would probably already want available for a system like that. Pull in HTTP::Daemon, pull in the HTTP modules, tie them together with a little regex foo for route parsing, done. In the very simple case, it's easier to do this than pull in a framework. In the very complex case where you need intricate control over odd parts of the process that frameworks don't usually give you, it's easier if you had written your own from scratch. In all the other cases, which I feel I was being generous in saying was only 99.99% of the time, you're better off having offloaded the concern to someone else.

Creating a database is also very easy. In the simplest case, you choose a record structure and write to disk opportunistically or on every change. Again, for the very simplest case, that's actually easier than even pulling in SQLite. In the very complex case, you can do interesting preprocessing and specialized storage techniques to store your data in ways that aren't amenable to anything except for a custom format.[1] Again, the vast majority of the time, you just use SQLite, Redis, or a RDBMS and it does a passable job at dealing with all your data integrity and warehousing needs. If you're a company trying to manipulate a dataset in a heretofore unseen way (either much faster or much more detailed that before), you might actually need to do it from scratch.

Creating a car is also fairly easy, if you have the prior experience (about as much or less as expected above). Like above, you're largely throwing existing parts together and the hard work is knowing what goes where and shaving off the pointy bits that prevent it from fitting really well. If you need to race something (because why else do you create a car?), in the simplest case you might just grab some cheap broken down beater and put a little work into it where needed and you have something that goes in a circle and you won't care too much if it barely finishes. If you have the money, you can buy a pre-built race-ready car and compete as am amateur. If you're an F1 team, you build the whole thing from the ground up to exact specifications.

This is, of course, all presupposing that the people involved actually have the knowledge and ability to do the really simple or advanced things. Often, they don't, or at least don't have enough to make it even feasible. For example, I know how to read and write CSS, but I'm not very good at it. Similarly, I know how to write HTML and apply CSS fairly in an amateur manner. I'm not a UI or UX designer. Does it really behoove me to learn the intricacies of design layout instead of using Bootstrap? I either don't care about how it looks at all, in which case I'll make it text/plain or at the most a couple of header tags, or I care enough that to make it somewhat passable visually I'll use Bootstrap. In what situation am I better off using CSS? In what way does that apply to more than 0.01% of the people out there?

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15350115

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#52
post #4

I know I am going to be downvoted so hard, but really it's very easy to build you own css these days, css frameworks look an easy solution for beginning your project but they become a burden gradually as your project grows

For the projects Bootstrap was designed for, the choice isn't between Bootstrap and a professionally designed custom theme; the choice is between Bootstrap and a white background with all text in Times New Roman 16 pt.

http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/

That format seems to work for the #2 company on the Fortune 500. Not that their website is beautiful, but sometimes it simply doesn't even matter.

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#53
post #4

I know I am going to be downvoted so hard, but really it's very easy to build you own css these days, css frameworks look an easy solution for beginning your project but they become a burden gradually as your project grows

Don't forget about Microsoft's Adaptive Cards.

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#54
post #47

I've been using the Bootstrap 4 beta for a couple weeks building a side project ( https://nanagram.co ) and I must say, it's been great to use. The built in utilities for responsive views and spacing are especially useful. Made optimizing the homepage for multiple screen sizes super fast and not painful at all. The Beta 1 had pretty good documentation and seemed pretty mature as well. Looking forward to upgrading to…

That is such a lovely service.

Thanks, Ian! Really appreciate the kind words. Our Grandma & Grandpa love it so far, especially my Grandpa. He’s almost deaf and can’t use the phone. Getting photos in the mail from our family helps him keep in touch with what everyone is up to in life between visits.

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: why? Why would you roll your own buttons, headers, footers, modals, panels, grid system, and alerts, which all respond responsively, when you could just take a framework off the shelf and start being productive immediately?

It depends on what you're doing. Kitchen-sink frameworks like Bootstrap are great for building tools that don't require a lot of customization of the UI, generally things like internal tools. But for user-facing stuff, designers and PMs want to tweak everything about the interface, and by the time you're done, you've rewritten most of the CSS and you actually spent more effort doing so than had you just written the C…

BS4 includes Flexbox and it has been designed to be much easier to customize with SASS. They have also added a bunch of utilities for spacing, colors, etc which makes customization at the CSS level easier as well. For a practical example, I only had to write a few lines of SASS to give some components (e.g. modal) a material design look. I think your criticism is valid for BS3 but not BS4 unless you are building a website that is drastically different than 95% of websites.

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the projects Bootstrap was designed for, the choice isn't between Bootstrap and a professionally designed custom theme; the choice is between Bootstrap and a white background with all text in Times New Roman 16 pt.

http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/ That format seems to work for the #2 company on the Fortune 500. Not that their website is beautiful, but sometimes it simply doesn't even matter.

It doesn’t matter in this case because Berkshire Hathaway’s website doesn’t matter.

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#58
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered using a guilt-driven pricing schedule? "Emotionally Distant Grandchild" , "Good Grandchild", "Nana's #1"

This comment actually made me laugh out loud. We didn’t put much thought into the pricing plan names to be honest. Will pitch this to my brother, who I built this out with over the last couple months.

Haha, yes. They were placeholders that ended up going live. Premier is named after our Grandpa, who calls things he loves "Premier". His friend he was in the Boy Scouts in during the 1940s is the Grandfather of Andy's best friend. Anytime my Grandpa talks about Andy's friend's family he calls them the "Premier Family of Weymouth" :)

We'll probably keep the Premier plan but need to rename the others.

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#59

I've been using the Bootstrap 4 beta for a couple weeks building a side project ( https://nanagram.co ) and I must say, it's been great to use. The built in utilities for responsive views and spacing are especially useful. Made optimizing the homepage for multiple screen sizes super fast and not painful at all. The Beta 1 had pretty good documentation and seemed pretty mature as well. Looking forward to upgrading to…

I signed up for your service. Do you have any competitors in this space? I thought the experience overall was very simple. Are you thinking about adding options for the prints? For example, glossy v. matte or 4x6 v 5x7? Edit: I see you replied to someone else and I cannot tell if the service is actually live (as in my card is going to be charged and photos are going to ship).

Thanks for signing up Matt. Just sent a response to the support ticket you sent. Thanks for taking the time to let us know about that bug.

We have the ability to do matte or glossy already and I just need to get in there an add it as an option. I'll make a note to ping you once that's ready.

The service is live and ready. Your first order will ship in 30 days from now! :)

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#60
post #4

I know I am going to be downvoted so hard, but really it's very easy to build you own css these days, css frameworks look an easy solution for beginning your project but they become a burden gradually as your project grows

Honestly for backend projects where nobody cares about design bootstrap is great.

Layout and such is easy. UI components, forms, etc, take a lot longer.

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