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Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

maxkle.in

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Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#51

Post by starkfist »

maxklein wrote: post #6
adamsmith wrote: post #4

having been in all three places, you should leave europe to start your company. but move to silicon valley instead.

I wish this were possible, but the difficulty in doing this is massive. If you are not U.S born, it's QUITE difficult to simply walk in and start a company in the U.S. And you'd spend a lot of time just solving those problems, and have a lot less time to setup your company. In comparison, I landed in china on thursday. Today is monday, and I have a fully furnished office (with furniture I selected myself), an assista…

I wish this were possible, but the difficulty in doing this is massive. If you are not U.S born, it's QUITE difficult to simply walk in and start a company in the U.S.

How do all the Chinese/Korean/Indian people in the US do it?

I often read on Hacker News about how difficult it is to start a software company in the US. But then I live in Brooklyn and people who don't speak english are always starting laundromats, bodegas, fruit stands, hardware shops, restaurants, and so forth. 3 out of the 4 businesses on my block were started by FOB immigrants. The only one that wasn't is a bar.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#52

Post by paraschopra »

9oliYQjP wrote: post #3

China's great until you have to go to court there and realize you're being totally screwed over because your opponent has an "in" with the government. There are countries like Australia and Canada that strike a nice middle ground between too much and too little regulation, have decent, stable economies right now, and solid relationships with China in the case you want to partner with a company there. But I've heard t…

India has a fairer legal system. It offers a great balance between what Max wanted and what you describe. I'm curious why didn't India come up as an option for Max.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#53

Post by yardie »

jerf wrote: post #41

Make plans for when the Chinese bubble pops. I'm quite confident they are in one, but regardless of your own feelings on that topic you can't rationally put the probability of that at 0%. When it pops, I don't know what would happen and there is another non-0% (and IMHO significant) chance that it might not be pleasant to be a foreigner at the time, especially a Westerner. If something looks to be popping I would mak…

I don't think they are in a bubble. Atleast not one that's going to pop. They have the advantage of developed and undeveloped markets. At the moment more of their money is going to fund internal investments since foreign investments have dried up. They have billions/trillions in soveriegn wealth funds so if they need capital they can break open a piggy bank.

Hopefully, if they've learned anything is overinvestment can be just as bad as underinvesting. If controlled properly they can coast on internal projects until the US and Europe exit their recessions. Then things can go back to business as usual.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#54

Post by yardie »

jerf wrote: post #41

Make plans for when the Chinese bubble pops. I'm quite confident they are in one, but regardless of your own feelings on that topic you can't rationally put the probability of that at 0%. When it pops, I don't know what would happen and there is another non-0% (and IMHO significant) chance that it might not be pleasant to be a foreigner at the time, especially a Westerner. If something looks to be popping I would mak…

I don't think they are in a bubble. Atleast not one that's going to pop. They have the advantage of developed and undeveloped markets. At the moment more of their money is going to fund internal investments since foreign investments have dried up. They have billions/trillions in soveriegn wealth funds so if they need capital they can break open a piggy bank.

Hopefully, if they've learned anything is overinvestment can be just as bad as underinvesting. If controlled properly they can coast on internal projects until the US and Europe exit their recessions. Then things can go back to business as usual.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#55

Post by zatara »

My experience with surfing tells me that you don't paddle towards where the wave has been, you wait and position yourself for the next one. The basic assumption is very sound, in a global world economy repositioning may be very interesting. I too agree that Europe is mostly dead for innovation and startups, but China is probably over-rated and too much bubble-prone at the moment (not to mention corruption, cultural shock, state bullying, etc).

From the big countries that will probably fuel the world economy for the next 50 years (China, India, Brazil and Russia), I would bet my horse in Brazil. There are problems as well (education, poverty, corruption), but none of the BIG ones (terrorism, crazy state rules, dictatorship). There is definitely a trend (World Cup, Olympiads) and I am considering it as well, but timing is paramount: you don't wanna be the first to jump ship and deal with all the crap, but you definitely don't wanna be too late.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#56

Post by drinian »

I find your single example of "unfreedom" in Europe to be entirely nonsensical.

Your friend was sued for defamation, and folded rather than take it to court, in one of the fairest court systems in the world, where she likely could have won cost plus damages if she had any evidence for her claims.

In China, someone might have shown up at her front door with a club -- and that someone might have a police badge or work for the mayor.

Also, the Chinese legal system is likely more Byzantine than that of Germany; it's just that it's not enforced. You're going to be in for a world of hurt when the government shuts you down for not having some kind of license you've never heard of.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#57

Post by blueberry »

starkfist wrote: post #51
maxklein wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish this were possible, but the difficulty in doing this is massive. If you are not U.S born, it's QUITE difficult to simply walk in and start a company in the U.S. And you'd spend a lot of time just solving those problems, and have a lot less time to setup your company. In comparison, I landed in china on thursday. Today is monday, and I have a fully furnished office (with furniture I selected myself), an assista…

I wish this were possible, but the difficulty in doing this is massive. If you are not U.S born, it's QUITE difficult to simply walk in and start a company in the U.S. How do all the Chinese/Korean/Indian people in the US do it? I often read on Hacker News about how difficult it is to start a software company in the US. But then I live in Brooklyn and people who don't speak english are always starting laundromats, bo…

> How do all the Chinese/Korean/Indian people in the US do it?

A lot of those come via green card lottery. That still means it's hard.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#58

Post by natch »

freshfey wrote: post #37
varjag wrote: post #2

It reads incredibly naive, but I wish the author the best of luck. He should however be prepared that drawbacks of Chinese way of doing business sometimes outweigh its advantages.

I don't think it's that naive. He mentioned several times that he has Chinese friends and locals who will help him. A lot of the replies here have been "don't do anything without a local" - that's exactly what he's not doing, because he knows some persons.

Oh, he has "friends." Well then, they must be perfectly trustworthy and competent, and they no doubt play by his own ethical rules, and he has nothing to worry about.

Yes, it is naive. But he'll have fun and learn a lot, so he should do it.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#59

Post by ximeng »

maxklein wrote: post #6
adamsmith wrote: post #4

having been in all three places, you should leave europe to start your company. but move to silicon valley instead.

I wish this were possible, but the difficulty in doing this is massive. If you are not U.S born, it's QUITE difficult to simply walk in and start a company in the U.S. And you'd spend a lot of time just solving those problems, and have a lot less time to setup your company. In comparison, I landed in china on thursday. Today is monday, and I have a fully furnished office (with furniture I selected myself), an assista…

How easy was it to get a visa to start a company? What prerequisites were required?

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#60

Post by zatara »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #25
sirrocco wrote: post #13

What I don't like in the article is the accent that is put on the advantages of the entrepreneur and little accent on the employee. It's great that you can fire people when you want, but it sucks if you're the one getting fired.

Create value and it will suck to fire you.

It is not that easy in a society designed to flatten standard deviation...
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