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The Thoughts of Chairman Xi

bbc.co.uk

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Re: The Thoughts of Chairman Xi

#51

Post by seanmcdirmid »

justicezyx wrote: post #34
LiweiZ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK as a Chinese, the 1938 incident is known to many since it was said to be Jiang's decision. As of Changchun, I saw that topic a few times in some forums 10+ years ago. The things people want to know change over time as well. Now, China is feeling its power and strength like a growing teenager (not very accurate, but you get what I mean), so the glory of the past, now and future is what people want to know. Zhanl…

> "growing teenager" This is an incrediable naive and patronizing phrase to describe China's accumulation of power. As a matter of fact, China's ascending is the most peaceful and constrained among all past super powers in the world history.

China has 5000 years of ascending to superpower status, not all of it very peaceful. If you mean China hasn't invaded another country since 1979, well, sure, I'll give you that.

Re: The Thoughts of Chairman Xi

#52

Post by ShabbosGoy »

justicezyx wrote: post #34
LiweiZ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK as a Chinese, the 1938 incident is known to many since it was said to be Jiang's decision. As of Changchun, I saw that topic a few times in some forums 10+ years ago. The things people want to know change over time as well. Now, China is feeling its power and strength like a growing teenager (not very accurate, but you get what I mean), so the glory of the past, now and future is what people want to know. Zhanl…

> "growing teenager" This is an incrediable naive and patronizing phrase to describe China's accumulation of power. As a matter of fact, China's ascending is the most peaceful and constrained among all past super powers in the world history.

> As a matter of fact, China's ascending is the most peaceful and constrained among all past super powers in the world history.

Alternative facts, maybe. Just look up the South China Sea, Doklam, constant agitation with India and Japan to see how peaceful China's rise is.

Re: The Thoughts of Chairman Xi

#53

Post by PhantomGremlin »

dmoy wrote: post #8
yeukhon wrote: post #6

This is the classic "what breaks you only make you stronger" but in a very aggressive way. Throughout history those who were oppressed and then made it to the top would usually end up wanting to seize full control and more oppressive than their oppressors. Xi looks friendly to the people, but there is a Chinese saying: 笑裡藏刀 (xiào lǐ cáng dāo)or "smile in hiding knife.” He is the alpha male of the entire Party. On one…

You're not wrong about some mainland Chinese refusing to believe (or never learning in the first place) anything about 6/4. My wife is among them, or used to be at least. Then again if you ask the average US freshman if the US military shot and killed a bunch of student protestors, you'd find a number who wouldn't believe you. Difference is in the US a trivial we search answers that question for you, while in China a…

Then again if you ask the average US freshman if the US military shot and killed a bunch of student protestors, you'd find a number who wouldn't believe you.

Saying "US military" is somewhat misleading.

The soldiers who shot and killed four students at Kent State University were part of what we call the "National Guard".[1] These are reserve military units.

National Guardsmen usually have full-time civilian jobs and are only called into service when needed. Sometimes these soldiers are called "weekend warriors". A National Guard unit is controlled by an individual state up until the time that the US government needs its services.

It would be more correct to call those soldiers "Ohio state military". At the time of the shootings, the National Guard unit involved was under the control of Governor Rhodes of the State of Ohio.[2]

There is a big distinction in the USA between "federal" (aka national US) and "state" government. This distinction isn't necessarily clear to foreigners. Granted, this distinction isn't necessarily clear to about 70% of US citizens either. But that's an entire other discussion.

Edit: the law has been updated since then, but something called the Posse Comitatus Act was in effect at the time.[3] It is against the law for the US military to act as a domestic police force:

From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_the_United_S... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

Re: The Thoughts of Chairman Xi

#55

Post by Iv »

justicezyx wrote: post #33
Iv wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But his anti-corruption campaign really looked like an anti-corruption campaign. I understand that they can be used as power tools but what are the elements to believe this is the case presently?

People never fight for the fighting's sake, they fight for profit, all sorts of profit. Why Xi wants to put down the tigers and flys? It's because those are in his way to achieve his idea of "revitalize the Chinese nation". Because those people are having different ideas on how to do the same thing, or entirely having a different purpose. Conveniently, it's always been true that absolute power comes with absolute cor…

So basically, you are assuming the conclusion.

Re: The Thoughts of Chairman Xi

#56

Post by Iv »

richsinn wrote: post #22
Iv wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain to me why Xi is considered to have "consolidated his grasp"? This seems to be a well accepted idea but I don't see what substantiates that. He starts his second term as prime minister of China, and serving two terms has been the norm in recent times. I did not remark China becoming more authoritarian under his rule. I do not see indications that he may stay after 2022, his scheduled depart. What d…

Exactly. Check this article out: "Xi Jinping May Be Less Powerful Than He Seems" ( https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/04/xi... ) The fact of the matter is that the outside world knows very little about the inner workings at the top of the Communist Party in China.

As a foreigner this feels a bit like a US' reaction about their loss of leadership. There has to be something wrong about China's rise. Imagining that it will surpass their own economic power through good management by a central government is something they just refuse to accept. It has to be some authoritarian cheat mode.

Re: The Thoughts of Chairman Xi

#57

Post by forapurpose »

norswap wrote: post #13

I find the parallels between Xi and Putin fascinating: both had "modest" origins (or modest spells in the case of Xi) and much publicize them. Both were not really accounted for much, simply managing to rise through the ranks without making a wave, and always scrupulously deferring to authority. Both were nominated to the head of their respective party as a compromise or a strawman. That is until they took power, aft…

> Interesting that the leaders of two of the world's superpowers (and the two formerly communist ones at that) share such a similar journey.

Maybe it's just two autocrats who use cults of personality and tactics from the same playbook.

Re: The Thoughts of Chairman Xi

#58

Post by forapurpose »

Iv wrote: post #56
richsinn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Check this article out: "Xi Jinping May Be Less Powerful Than He Seems" ( https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/04/xi... ) The fact of the matter is that the outside world knows very little about the inner workings at the top of the Communist Party in China.

As a foreigner this feels a bit like a US' reaction about their loss of leadership. There has to be something wrong about China's rise. Imagining that it will surpass their own economic power through good management by a central government is something they just refuse to accept. It has to be some authoritarian cheat mode.

Hmmm ... that's pretty speculative, or really completely speculative.

This movie has been made before. The USSR claimed something similar. Now of course, China's aggregate economy could match the U.S.'s when its citizens are only 25% as wealthy, but that is not a sign of great economic performance.

> good management by a central government

I think you mean by an undemocratic authoritarian government (I don't think centrality is the issue). Regardless, I don't see good management, mostly effective suppression and international propaganda. If management is so great, why do they need to censor and propagandize their own citizens on a massive scale, not to mention outlawing dissent and imprisoning dissenters? Who needs the 'Great Firewll', in that case.

I don't think people in Tibet, Hong Kong, Taiwan, or Xinjian would say China is so well managed, as obvious examples.

Re: The Thoughts of Chairman Xi

#59

Post by forapurpose »

Iv wrote: post #18
norswap wrote: post #13

I find the parallels between Xi and Putin fascinating: both had "modest" origins (or modest spells in the case of Xi) and much publicize them. Both were not really accounted for much, simply managing to rise through the ranks without making a wave, and always scrupulously deferring to authority. Both were nominated to the head of their respective party as a compromise or a strawman. That is until they took power, aft…

Can someone explain to me why Xi is considered to have "consolidated his grasp"? This seems to be a well accepted idea but I don't see what substantiates that. He starts his second term as prime minister of China, and serving two terms has been the norm in recent times. I did not remark China becoming more authoritarian under his rule. I do not see indications that he may stay after 2022, his scheduled depart. What d…

> I did not remark China becoming more authoritarian under his rule.

Xi greatly suppressed political dissent, online and off. There was a burgeoning, very interesting online debate about democracy and governance, full of thoughtful ideas, brilliant satire, and more. AFAIK, that's mostly gone. You can read about it here:

http://chinadigitaltimes.net/

He also arrested and otherwise suppressed many political opponents, at least in large part under the guise of an 'anti-corruption' campaign.

He's also revived Communist ideology and a Mao-ish cult of personality for himself. In contrast, Deng Xiaopeng avoided it - my understanding is that he even was cremated and had his ashes scattered at sea so there would be no shrine to him.

Finally, he has helped create an intense wave of nationalism.

(I will say, in fairness, that cults of personality and nationalism are trendy in other countries too, such as the U.S. I don't know how everyone forgot the evil that those things lead to.)

Re: The Thoughts of Chairman Xi

#60

Post by mslate »

swang wrote: post #35
mslate wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For everyone else who doesn't know what "6/4" refers to, it refers to the date of the Tiananmen Square protests: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1...

A Day To Remember. A short video where they ask Chinese University students, "what day is today." Filmed in 2005... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCPkkGArVy4 I watch this clip a lot around the 6/4 anniversary. This is not the original copy, that's somewhere on Vimeo I think.

Wow, the discomfort is intense. How much is that from being video recorded w/o consent?
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