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Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

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Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#51
post #15

I hope NSA is doing the same with Russian Cyber Defense systems. This is what NSA should be focused on and not on turning its eavesdropping capabilities towards the homeland. What if an adversary where to hack the NSA warehouses were all communications swept up by their eavesdropping efforts are stored?

I've been thinking about writing a spy thriller based on that premise, ever since the Snowden leaks. At this point I'd assign 30% probability that it's already happened.

That's part of the plot for Dan Brown's Digital Fortress, although like other Dan Brown books it certainly leaves room for someone else to tell the same story better.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#52
Sorry. I have a point -- towards the end. Even if it's one that gets me downvoted:

In my personal life, I've been wrestling with the decision to "do the right thing" and, for example, pay for digital media I consume. Help a friend in need, who doesn't really reciprocate (because, "the children", among other things). Purchase the health care insurance that takes away money I could otherwise spend on immediate treatment.

In each area, I've felt increasingly screwed over.

Shrinking catalogs, and money I paid spent on lawyers ensuring ever-greater rent-seeking as opposed to actual access to content.

My friend's health on the rebound, while mine has suffered, including from the depression induced by their abandonment of our friendship once I was, apparently, no longer necessary.

A health care system that keeps jacking prices and trying also by legislative manipulation to push me out the door of coverage, regardless of my best efforts to work with it.

In all these matters, I'm coming to think that part of my failed response comes down to a simple matter: Don't pay. Stop paying the very systems and people that or who are screwing you over.

So, here we have the NSA, that is (who are) ever more showing themselves to be incompetent with regard to what we hope they would accomplish, and outright aggressive and abusive with regard to us and matters that we consider commercial contract law, not their business, distracting rather than helpful, etc.

Helping prop up private IP rights and rent-seeking. Domestic spying. Accumulating so much data on everything that they can't see the needle for the haystack -- so, grow the haystack!

I'm hardly one of these bullsh-t "Conservative" (that's with a big "C", to differentiate from the actual noun/adjective, "conservative"), "shrink/starve the government" types. Government plays an essential role: It is the definition of our collective organization and governance.

But in some areas, I really want to say, let's simply stop paying for this shit.

Because when we pay for it, we only make it stronger. Not the effective governance we aspire to. Instead, this incompetence that also threatens aggression against its own society.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#54
I find these allegations are deserving of some scrutiny. The entire story is quite bizarre when you begin to consider it. The NSA is apparently leaking like a broken pipe with this information. And it's peculiar because this is information that makes our intelligence agencies look completely inept. That is a very good thing if this story is fake, but a very bad thing if its true.

It is stupefying that NSA contractors/employees would be genuinely copying classified information that is heavily related to national security, and then just loading it up on their personal Windows PC with no apparent encryption or access controls. For instance why in the world wouldn't they have OS level software restricting read access of a certain secure partition (or removable media) to a specific whitelist of processes? Or why wouldn't they use an airgapped machine? Then there are issues like the NSA being so anxious and happy to leak this information, and then them indirectly 'wink wink' confirming it publicly completely destroying the purpose of we don't comment on speculation --- when you start commenting on certain speculation, it indirectly says something about other speculation that you actually choose not to comment on. They're also seemingly unconcerned that somebody is leaking information that, if true, shows the NSA to be incompetent and also exposes attack vectors for enemy actors. There are also things like Kaspersky previously volunteering to provide complete source access to the government. Our government declined the offer. How does this make sense?

Since Iraq I have become much more critical of pretty much everything. Our media and our government lied to generate a case for war. And I feel lately that they are now trying to build a case for some sort of conflict, presumably cold, against Russia. Or at the minimum start Red Scare 3.0. I have no idea why they would want to do this, but I tend to abide Occam's razor, and this all being true requires a lot more effort than this just being "Yellowcake 2.0."

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#55

Kaspersky preempting (presumably) this story: "New conspiracy theory, anon sources media story coming. Note we make no apologies for being aggressive in the battle against cyberthreats" https://twitter.com/e_kaspersky/status/915946040561487875 Edit: Kaspersky press release https://usa.kaspersky.com/about/press-releases/2017_kaspersk...

Heh, an extreme interpretation of that statement could be that Kaspersky considers the NSA to be a "cyberthreat"...

Kaspersky was trained by the FSB (former KGB). (Putin has been quoted as saying "there's no such thing as a /former/ KGB officer").

So as a defacto agent of the Russian government, Kaspersky certainly considers the NSA (and other Western gov't agencies) to be an adversary.

Agreed that it's crazy that the US govt ever used Kaspersky software.

https://www.extremetech.com/internet/252421-russian-cybersec...

"According to emails obtained by Bloomberg Businessweek (and confirmed by Kaspersky Lab as genuine), Kaspersky’s ties to the Russian FSB (the successor to the KGB) are much tighter than have previously been reported. It has allegedly worked with the government to develop security software and worked on joint projects that “the CEO knew would be embarrassing if made public.”

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#56
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He explicitly quoted what he wanted sources for. Don't try to be cute. In other words, what makes you say the NSA is complacent and that Russia is ahead.

while Russia never sleeps (Like NSA does when Russians and others screw up.) Easy there...meant to say that NSA does the same, or never sleeps. I am 100% sure that NSA is extremely effective.

My apologies - I read your meaning as 'we are falling behind the Russians!'

It's a legitimate argument that could have been made (As the capabilities of both countries are obviously different), but not one that I've seen convincing evidence for.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, an extreme interpretation of that statement could be that Kaspersky considers the NSA to be a "cyberthreat"...

Jacob Applebaum publicly claimed (at the Chaos Computer Club, Germany, in the mid-2010s) that the Five Eyes and other intelligence services, for better or worse, attack employees of network providers, SaaS providers, and likely native software providers. It's not clear to me if it matters what country they are working from. If the NSA has a credible threat in the USA, they can be authorized to assist with domestic in…

Yes, the NSA and other Five Eyes agencies go after foreign ISPs.

There are strong legal protections keeping the NSA from spying on Americans without very strong evidence. Lawfare has covered this extensively. Here's an example from Wittes (even stronger because he's basically a neocon). https://twitter.com/benjaminwittes/status/911231805302480896

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