Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

General Motors Is Going All Electric

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 66 posts

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#51

Post by thinkling »

stevenwoo wrote: post #49
cwbrandsma wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem is seats. Ideally I want a vehicle that sits 8 people (minimum is 7) -- and not cost a small fortune. So, for the time being electrics are out of the running for me. I'll check back in 10 years when most of my kids have moved out.

Isn't your eligible list of vehicles tiny - 7 seater? Forget not costing a small fortune, off the top of my head a Mercedes Sprinter van and Chevy Suburban are not cheap to buy or run.

Every minivan is a 7-seater (2 + 2 + 3) and many bigger SUVs are, as well.

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#52

Post by graycat »

> That product onslaught puts the company at the forefront of an increasingly large crowd of automakers proclaiming the age of electricity and promising to move away from gasoline- and diesel-powered vehicles.

Uh, call that for small, mostly urban, pregnant roller skate cars but not much for SUVs or light trucks and certainly not for the main uses of Diesel in long haul 18 wheel trucks, backhoes, earth moving equipment, boats, etc. "Vehicles" is way too strong, has the authors dreaming.

Also, so far the recharging time is too long for nearly everyone. And for rural drivers, mostly "No way"; they still need gasoline, put in 20 gallons in a few minutes.

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#54

Post by graycat »

sien wrote: post #9
twblalock wrote: post #6

I'm impressed that the American car companies have embraced electric technology so quickly. I'm also disappointed that the Japanese companies are falling behind. The Prius was a very innovative car when it was first released 20 years ago (that's right, the first Prius was a 1997 model!), but it is falling behind. The Nissan Leaf is just not competitive anymore, and I see no sign of a newer version of it with better r…

The 2018 Nissan Leaf has a 400km range and has charge times like a Tesla. http://www.caradvice.com.au/581046/2018-nissan-leaf-revealed...

For the 400 km, is the A/C or heater on, or the headlights, the speed nice and slow, not much cargo, and heavy use by the driver of pedals?

I still want a 20 gallon gas tank and a lot of filling stations.

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#55

Post by graycat »

thinkling wrote: post #43
bovermyer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that this is true. To compare, would you expect every house to have a gas station built in? Granted, a full electric charge doesn't last as long as a full tank of gas, but that's going to be decreasingly relevant as battery technology improves.

What matters isn't how long the charge lasts, but how long it takes, and how awkward that is when you really need a charge. If I remember right, the stats for the Bolt were that (when empty) it can charge 100mi of range in 30 minutes, but after that the charge rate falls off quickly, and a full charge actually takes much longer than you'd expect. If you get unlucky and get to a charge point but the charger is occupie…

Fiction? Just what is it you have against fiction? Fiction can be fun! Besides, we're talking way out there, and between now and then can be some delays, etc.

We had electric cars way back there, likely before the Model T. The problem is the same -- the batteries. Long ago a Ford executive said, "You build me a good battery, and I'll build you a good electric car.". We're still waiting for that good battery. We also hoped for a good capacitor from EEStore, and we're still waiting for that, too. And we tried steam engines and gas turbine engines.

For my car, the problems have been corrosion and the transmission, not the engine. Otherwise the problems have been suspension bushings and springs past their fatigue life. Engines? Mostly fine. Currently a big problem is that it's > $1000 in labor to remove the dashboard to replace the lights that burned out.

Mostly those Tesla batteries solve a problem I don't have and give me new problems I don't have and won't be able to solve.

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#56

Post by antisthenes »

5ilv3r wrote: post #24
elorant wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about batteries wearing out year after year? How much would it cost to change all the batteries in your car?

There is very little year over year wear. After a decade or two in a moderate climate you can expect 80% capacity still.

How can you possibly make that claim when the oldest electric-only vehicles are 10 years old?

How can you possibly make that claim without knowing the driving patterns of the person you're addressing?

What is a moderate climate ?

I mean, I'd love to just assume what you said is true (I'm as much as an electric car fan as your typical HN'er), but you're going to need to provide some data to back those claims up.

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#57

Post by twblalock »

bovermyer wrote: post #11
twblalock wrote: post #6

I'm impressed that the American car companies have embraced electric technology so quickly. I'm also disappointed that the Japanese companies are falling behind. The Prius was a very innovative car when it was first released 20 years ago (that's right, the first Prius was a 1997 model!), but it is falling behind. The Nissan Leaf is just not competitive anymore, and I see no sign of a newer version of it with better r…

I don't know that this is true. To compare, would you expect every house to have a gas station built in? Granted, a full electric charge doesn't last as long as a full tank of gas, but that's going to be decreasingly relevant as battery technology improves.

> To compare, would you expect every house to have a gas station built in?

If I could get a full charge at a charging station in the amount of time it takes to fill up a gas tank, it would not be a problem to drive to a charging station the same way I drive to gas stations now. But a full charge on an electric car takes hours, even with fast charging.

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#58

Post by Gibbon1 »

aphextron wrote: post #20
twblalock wrote: post #6

I'm impressed that the American car companies have embraced electric technology so quickly. I'm also disappointed that the Japanese companies are falling behind. The Prius was a very innovative car when it was first released 20 years ago (that's right, the first Prius was a 1997 model!), but it is falling behind. The Nissan Leaf is just not competitive anymore, and I see no sign of a newer version of it with better r…

> The Nissan Leaf is just not competitive anymore, and I see no sign of a newer version of it with better range. Depends on your needs. My Leaf has been incredible. I paid $5k for an older one off lease and it gets me round trip to work/school/running errands for essentially zero marginal cost. People are stuck in an ICE mindset where they can't imagine a car being useful with less than 400 miles range. But the reali…

Random thought of mine is charging becomes less of an issue when the cars range is several multiples of daily use. If say your electric car has 200 miles of range and you drive it 40 miles a day, then it needs to be charged once every 5 days. Which is in line with the US average of 12,000 miles a year. Or 230 miles a week which is about the range of a Bolt or Tesla.

Other random thought. Someone that has charging at work, does not need to charge their car at home. Which emphasizes the idea that an electric car owner just needs charging to somewhat ubiquitous. Charger at work, charger at the store, charger at a parking lot, coffee shop, etc.

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#59

Post by elihu »

unit91 wrote: post #8

I don't see how this can work in anything but a commuter-centric car. Want to drive from LA to SF or from Austin to Tulsa? Too bad. Want to drive an electric, loaded pickup from Austin to Dallas? Also not going to happen. Unless they make some significant technological strides, nations larger than Norway are going to take a serious economic hit.

According to the article, GM is also investing in fuel cells.

They also aren't converting to all electric right now, they're rolling out some new electric models and are planning to eventually stop building gas-burning cars. If that doesn't happen for another ten or twenty years, we can probably expect some significant improvements in battery capacity per unit of mass and cost in that time.

According to Google maps, Austin to Dallas is 195 miles, LA to SF is 382 miles, and Austin to Tulsa is 454 miles.

~200 mile road trips are possible now with current technology. There aren't any electric pickups on the market as far as I know, but it should be possible (though expensive) with current technology for an electric truck to make the trip if it had a battery that's sized appropriately for that kind of use.

~400 mile road trips are a bit too far for a single battery charge at highway speeds without some kind of new technology or a vehicle that's optimized for range over other concerns, but I wouldn't want be driving that long without a break anyways. I expect if there's a market for that kind of vehicle, someone will build it eventually.

Re: General Motors Is Going All Electric

#60

Post by elihu »

5ilv3r wrote: post #7

It would seem Detroit no longer feels the need to emphasize the importance of traditional energy companies to our future. Very nice too see after so many years of them promising hydrogen will solve everything and make your wife and dog come back home.

From the article:

> The new all-electric models will be a mix of battery electric cars and fuel cell-powered vehicles.

They don't specify whether the fuel cells will be hydrogen or something else, but it may be premature to say that Detroit has given up on hydrogen as a fuel.

Post reply on HN