Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The tech sec­tor might be evil

tbray.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 233 posts

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#51

Post by throwaway613834 »

tallanvor wrote: post #35
throwaway613834 wrote: post #4

What sucks is I can't just tell my friends "you're working for an evil company -- just look at {insert 5 evil things they did in the past couple years}". It sucks even more that these are some of the kindest and most caring people I know, with better moral character than myself -- I almost feel they somehow got brainwashed into their jobs. But who would enjoy hearing that? At best they would ignore it; at worst you'd…

My response to you would be the following: 1. Working for a company doesn't mean you agree with everything they do. 2. Just because some of the work you do is used by someone else for something you don't agree with doesn't mean that you're evil by default. 3. Try to find a tool that can't be used for "evil". Seriously, I doubt you can find a single thing, whether a device or an application that can't both do good and…

My replies would be the following:

1. Right, I realize this. That's one part of why they're still my friends!

2. I never said my friends are evil because of this. I in fact said quite the opposite.

3. The question is not whether something can be used for "evil", but whether it is. If it is, ideally people shouldn't be contributing to it.

4. I have no idea. I'm also not sure how this comes into play.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#52

Post by murderfs »

geomark wrote: post #21

Not to mention the many (ex) friends working for "defense" contractors. Ex because I really can't be friends with them any longer. Evil quotes deployed because calling it defense is a farce considering what the systems they are developing are used for.

Well, given the effectiveness that most defense contractors seem to display, they might be doing a humanitarian service. If the government is going to spend that money regardless, it's probably better that it goes into planes that can't fly and boats that dissolve in water than actually effective projects.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#53

Post by Aeolun »

throwaway613834 wrote: post #4

What sucks is I can't just tell my friends "you're working for an evil company -- just look at {insert 5 evil things they did in the past couple years}". It sucks even more that these are some of the kindest and most caring people I know, with better moral character than myself -- I almost feel they somehow got brainwashed into their jobs. But who would enjoy hearing that? At best they would ignore it; at worst you'd…

Thing is, if not me, then someone else. At least I am aware of the issues and can try to limit them as much as possible. I'm still bound to my salary, but at least I have ethics. The next one they get might not.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#54

Post by mirimir »

taway_1212 wrote: post #45
mirimir wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soldiers typically have a duty to refuse immoral orders.

A duty to whom? In most armies and wars, insisting to refuse an order, moral or not, will get you in front of a firing squad (or, if it's a really civilized army, in jail).

Well, it does depend on the army, I admit. And "immoral" was probably not a good term. More like "an order that seems to violate policy". But following illicit orders can also get you in trouble.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#55

Post by Aeolun »

geomark wrote: post #21

Not to mention the many (ex) friends working for "defense" contractors. Ex because I really can't be friends with them any longer. Evil quotes deployed because calling it defense is a farce considering what the systems they are developing are used for.

But what if I want to be prepared in case aliens invade the earth?

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#56

Post by mirimir »

addHocker wrote: post #50
mirimir wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soldiers typically have a duty to refuse immoral orders.

Its totally imoral to not burn witches. Morals is a totally redefinable system.

Yes, "immoral" was a bad way to put it. There are typically rules about questioning orders. They're redefinable too, of course. But much of it links to the Geneva Conventions, which are quite stable.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#58

Post by kodfodrasz »

tanilama wrote: post #39
kodfodrasz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the research coming out of SV tech companies nowadays is yet annother chat platform, and reimplementing broken C code in broken JavaScript code. Is it making the World a better place? I don't think so. Is it making it a worse place? Only for other developers :)

> Most of the research coming out of SV tech companies nowadays is yet annother chat platform, and reimplementing broken C code in broken JavaScript code. I don't think so, there is a lot of stuff happening in a place that called SV. Maybe you are referring to the cool startup bunch?

Indeed I do, but also many other unnecessary innovations came out of SV, as well as some interesting Research, which end up used for solving problems which don't exist.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#59

Post by TomK32 »

Aeolun wrote: post #55
geomark wrote: post #21

Not to mention the many (ex) friends working for "defense" contractors. Ex because I really can't be friends with them any longer. Evil quotes deployed because calling it defense is a farce considering what the systems they are developing are used for.

But what if I want to be prepared in case aliens invade the earth?

Raptor Jesus will save us...

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#60

Post by arctux »

throwaway613834 wrote: post #4

What sucks is I can't just tell my friends "you're working for an evil company -- just look at {insert 5 evil things they did in the past couple years}". It sucks even more that these are some of the kindest and most caring people I know, with better moral character than myself -- I almost feel they somehow got brainwashed into their jobs. But who would enjoy hearing that? At best they would ignore it; at worst you'd…

This is something I've been wrestling with as well. Several of my friends work for Google or Facebook.

I've discussed this at length with some of them. Several seem to object strongly to, for example, Congress's block of the FCC's proposed ISP privacy rules. Yet they work for companies which implement forms of tracking which are substantially similar. Some work directly on implementation of said tracking.

I find it frustrating since each and every one of them has other options. In the words of Jeff Hammerbacher: "The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. That sucks."

Post reply on HN