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I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

houstonchronicle.com

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Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#51

Post by sverige »

subway wrote: post #3

It's really depressing that we've largely abandoned the art of decentralized radio communication. I think Amateur radio has seen a minor resurgence in recent years, but it seems like more and more traffic that traditionally would have been passed by decentralized amateur operators now relies on centralized networks. Obviously Zello and its ilk bring significant benefits with them, but I worry about the impact they ha…

Amateur radio is still alive, but there are not nearly as many active hams as there were 30 years ago when I first got my license. A much smaller percentage of hams know how to pass traffic in a systematic way these days, and not as many are proficient with Morse code, which is arguably the most efficient use of spectrum in disaster scenarios.

Hams did help during Harvey and are helping during Irma, but it doesn't get as much press as it used to.

I also think that there has been sort of a systematic degradation in neighborhood relations that has an impact on disaster response. My neighborhood has mostly middle aged and older people in it now, most of us know each other, but many neighborhoods have become much more transient in the last generation or so and ties are not as strong.

My challenge to a community that includes "hacker" in its name is to consider picking up the radio hobby. It has some real old school hacker opportunities for everyone. And, it has never been easier to obtain an amateur license. The Morse code requirements have been dropped. The technical part of the test is not that difficult for anyone with any understanding of electronics. The regulations are somewhat obscure, but not difficult to grasp. We need an infusion of new amateur radio operators. The old guys (like my dad) are disappearing fast.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#52

Post by sliverstorm »

doodlebugging wrote: post #43

We used Zello when we were down there with a boat. We are just regular people, not part of anyone's navy, just a few guys with a boat that were part of a much larger civilian response to this disaster. About the Cajun Navy - There were so many people responding to this disaster wanting to help with their time and boats that many times we found ourselves staging to launch but ultimately unable to get in the water beca…

Massive resources were wasted with boats lined up in one spot that could've been actively searching somewhere else.

I'm on a search & rescue team, and this is usually the chief challenge with "the public" getting involved, there is no established organizational structure. People all mean well, but it is incredibly difficult to utilize a horde of untrained people effectively at the drop of a hat, and it can also make things worse.

Zero criticism of the Cajun Navy et al, sometimes a motley crew is the best you've got and you do the best you can. But if you've ever been turned back when you tried to volunteer for a disaster, this is why.

I wonder if a future extension to ICS/NIMS could be, how to plug in these unconventional resources where professional manpower is insufficient. Develop a 2-minute briefing, a point of contact for unconventional resources to report to, a simplified structure & communication network. The most important concepts are pretty simple, and the first responder doesn't need to know that much about it.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#53

Post by sverige »

doodlebugging wrote: post #43

We used Zello when we were down there with a boat. We are just regular people, not part of anyone's navy, just a few guys with a boat that were part of a much larger civilian response to this disaster. About the Cajun Navy - There were so many people responding to this disaster wanting to help with their time and boats that many times we found ourselves staging to launch but ultimately unable to get in the water beca…

One advantage of a trained ham radio operator is that false reports such as you've described are sifted much more thoroughly before being broadcast. Limiting access to the communication channels by requiring licensing is a great way to improve signal to noise ratio.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#54

Post by protomyth »

wnissen wrote: post #46
protomyth wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And don't the victims deserve organized, professional response? Frankly, there is never enough money to hire enough people to do all the work. This is the US and we have a long tradition of neighbor helping neighbor. Many of the "amateur" responses are professional grade people. Many areas of the country are covered by volunteer fire departments. The Red Cross often banks the money, and people should really read th…

There are 3.5 million people working full-time for the US Department of Defense (including contractors but not the reserves). Wouldn't it make sense to train a few thousand of them to make sure there is efficient dispatch of rescues? I'm extremely glad the Cajun Navy was there, please don't misunderstand. I think they would have been an essential part of the response under any circumstances. It's just that they would…

> Wouldn't it make sense to train a few thousand of them to make sure there is efficient dispatch of rescues?

Why DoD? You might as well double train all the Fish & Wildlife people. The US has a long tradition of volunteers and they are enthusiastic and fairly effective. Single point of dispatches fail, badly. Its in the national character of the US. Having the government do everything isn't.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#55

Post by briffle »

revicon wrote: post #2

I heard about Zello through this article a couple days ago. I installed it and to be honest it's been kind of interesting to listen to, reminded me of the old days when I wold listen in on my CB radio to the random chatter. I'm not sure how useful it is for actual communication though, it seems like SMS or similar apps are more efficient and let me know I didn't miss anything if I'm away from my phone for a while.

This tool is more useful for immediate communication with 'somebody' not 2 way communication. I listened in to a channel with Irma closing in, and People were asking questions like "I'm on the road, and not going to make it, what is the nearest evacuation center to where I am now?" or important messages were relayed like "We are working at store X, in city Y, and we just got another truck with more bottled water"

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#57

Post by nsebban »

briandear wrote: post #16
wnissen wrote: post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

How do you scale that in a hurry? Do you have people doing this full time sitting idle waiting for a full scale disaster to hit? You already have the National Guard, but how can that force cover an area the size of the Netherlands — with a thousand boats ready to go? Texas had literally thousands of rescues. It’s ridiculous to suggest that any government force can deploy a force large enough to handle that within a d…

Hundreds of people opened their home in October 2015 after the huge rainstorm and floods in Cannes and Biot. Several supermarket (Carrefour and Intermarché for sure) delivered tons of food to the people there.

Hundreds of people opened their home on July 14 2016 after the terrorist attack in Nice. Same in Paris before that. And same in Barcelona this summer.

While it's true that American people jump into action, it's just wrong, and immensely disrespectful of the people who helped, to say the same doesn't happen in France or in other countries.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#58

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

tjohns wrote: post #35
beamatronic wrote: post #33

We need ham radio hardware with an iOS interface

It exists. Off the top of my head, Flex SDR radios can be fully network controlled via iOS: http://www.flexradio.com/amateur-products/flex-6000-signatur... There's other options as well. But I'm not sure how that would help here?

Yeah, it wouldn't really help communicate with the victims in an emergency like this because virtually none of the general public is going to have (and know how to use) specialized equipment that they only need in extremely rare situations. Perhaps equipment could be distributed to the volunteers, but it seems like many of the boat owners already had basic radio capabilities anyway.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#59

Post by thescriptkiddie »

SigmundA wrote: post #56

Lot of misconception on this app that it works without cell service, like a regular walkie talkie. Does seem like a good idea if Apple or Samsung might build in some point to point radio hardware similar to a Gotenna that's works without cell infrastructure.

Serval actually does this with WiFi mesh networking.

http://www.servalproject.org/

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#60

Post by jes5199 »

sverige wrote: post #53
doodlebugging wrote: post #43

We used Zello when we were down there with a boat. We are just regular people, not part of anyone's navy, just a few guys with a boat that were part of a much larger civilian response to this disaster. About the Cajun Navy - There were so many people responding to this disaster wanting to help with their time and boats that many times we found ourselves staging to launch but ultimately unable to get in the water beca…

One advantage of a trained ham radio operator is that false reports such as you've described are sifted much more thoroughly before being broadcast. Limiting access to the communication channels by requiring licensing is a great way to improve signal to noise ratio.

in theory, sure, but unlicensed Ham-capable radios are so cheap nowadays that public repeaters suffer from spam and harassment, just like every other medium.
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