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Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

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Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#51

Post by downandout »

dkural wrote: post #23
downandout wrote: post #9

Despite its statement of fact in the title, this is in the opinion section and is riddled with innuendo, inaccuracies, and fearmongering, starting with the oft-repeated and incorrect idea that Russia "hacked our election". This is of course not the case - some email was hacked and it exposed some of the illegal/unethical dealings of a candidate. Had the leaked emails all been about how hard that candidate was going t…

The NSA disagrees with you. Voting software suppliers and local election officials were targeted, not just DNC emails. https://theintercept.com/2017/06/05/top-secret-nsa-report-de... I do agree with you that without firm evidence & legal framework, the government should not victimize private business interests.

According to this article, voting machines were targeted, but it seems very unclear as to whether or not those attempts were successful or had any effect on anything at all. Previous reports have all concluded that no votes were actually affected by hacking, and this article strives to imply that votes were affected but has no facts to back that up.

I would assume that attempts to gather information on and hack into voting machines happen all the time, by both state actors and private individuals. They key is whether or not such attempts are successful.

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#52

Post by ScottBurson »

downandout wrote: post #51
dkural wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA disagrees with you. Voting software suppliers and local election officials were targeted, not just DNC emails. https://theintercept.com/2017/06/05/top-secret-nsa-report-de... I do agree with you that without firm evidence & legal framework, the government should not victimize private business interests.

According to this article, voting machines were targeted, but it seems very unclear as to whether or not those attempts were successful or had any effect on anything at all. Previous reports have all concluded that no votes were actually affected by hacking, and this article strives to imply that votes were affected but has no facts to back that up. I would assume that attempts to gather information on and hack into…

In many cases, we have no way to know whether they were successful, because voting machines are still being used that keep no auditable paper trail.

https://www.verifiedvoting.org/

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#53

Post by ScottBurson »

junkculture wrote: post #38
dkural wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did hack the voting machines. It doesn't say the hack successfully changed the outcome. What do you disagree with?

The first I've heard of this. Any citations?

Well, you could start here: [0]

[0] http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/09/01/did_russia...

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#54

Post by int_19h »

Shank wrote: post #17
bayesian_horse wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason you "know" the NSA is a threat is because of the increased "transparency" of western democracies. There is no transparency in Russia. In a system of kleptocracy, bribery and a questionable judicial system, there is no boundary between state actors and any "private" corporation. If the FSB asks Kasperski for help, they can't say no, and they won't tell. If given the choice, I'd still rather trust American i…

> The reason you "know" the NSA is a threat is because of the increased "transparency" of western democracies. The reason why we know so much about what the NSA does is because a few NSA contractors have broken the law (for good or for ill) and leaked classified information about operations. Without leaks, there would be no information about what NSA does or doesn't do. The only difference between NSA and FSB is that…

Ironically, we actually know more about FSB warrantless wiretapping from official sources, because things like SORM-2 and SORM-3 are actual written law.

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#55

Post by int_19h »

agarden wrote: post #2

One can easily imagine reading an article like this published on a Russian site, with 'Kaspersky' replaced with 'Symantec' and 'FSB' with 'NSA'.

One can, and such an article would also be 100% correct. Even if Symantec doesn't partner with NSA today, there's certainly a potential for them to be doing that tomorrow.

The pragmatic difference is that it's very hard for another country to completely avoid relying on software products created in the sphere of influence of Western spy agencies, whereas it's relatively easy for US to ditch Kaspersky.

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#56

Post by unlmtd1 »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #15
mc32 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH, regardless of the NYT and their recent "red-scare", I'd be concerned with using them on sensitive systems -because either knowingly or unwittingly they could have FSB moles working for them.

You really don't need FSB moles if the property and even personal survival of the CEO is in the hands of an authocratic regime. No Russian citizen in Russia, especially not anyone with any kind of wealth, can deny the government's requests. Whether the influence on Kasperky is from the top or only starts further down the chain, is more of a stylistic aspect of handling intelligence assets...

Russians are more free than Americans.

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#57

Post by icbm504 »

This is not a news article. This is an op-ed piece by a US Senator. The author may be concerned about NSA/CIA inserting their spyware into US products, and may also be concerned about various US intelligence agencies spying on US citizens. Neither of these topics are significant to point the Senator is making. The point of the article is that Russian spyware is a security threat on the US. It is an op-ed piece, you can agree or disagree as to how credible the threat is ... and if you are from NH you can get extra credit and can take that into consideration when you vote on her candidacy next time she comes up for reelection.

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#58

Post by agarden »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #15
mc32 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH, regardless of the NYT and their recent "red-scare", I'd be concerned with using them on sensitive systems -because either knowingly or unwittingly they could have FSB moles working for them.

You really don't need FSB moles if the property and even personal survival of the CEO is in the hands of an authocratic regime. No Russian citizen in Russia, especially not anyone with any kind of wealth, can deny the government's requests. Whether the influence on Kasperky is from the top or only starts further down the chain, is more of a stylistic aspect of handling intelligence assets...

This, too, is not unique to Russia. Joseph Nacchio was CEO of Qwest[1] when he refused to hand things over to the NSA. Lucrative government contracts were then dropped, Qwest's earnings took a hit, and Nacchio was subsequently prosecuted for insider trading. As I understand it, the accusation was that he knew they were not going to meet their earnings forecast and his contention is that he did not because the government contracts being dropped was a surprise to him.

"Since being freed in September 2013, Nacchio, 65, has repeatedly denied he engaged in insider trading, arguing that he thought Qwest had opportunities to get federal contracts that would have boosted its revenue, but those opportunities were withdrawn after the company's alleged refusal to cooperate with a National Security Agency surveillance program.

Nacchio has suggested repeatedly that the government's prosecution of him was payback for not helping the NSA."[2]

Even if it turns out that Nacchio really is guilty of insider trading and the government did nothing untoward, one can see how easy it would be for the US government to destroy the life of a CEO they find uncooperative.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio

2. https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2015/04/29/joe-nacch...

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#59

Post by sandworm101 »

junkculture wrote: post #36
sandworm101 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot microsoft apple and google. In many countries they are looked upon as potential vectors if not threats themselves.

Microsoft and Google are definitely vectors both for themselves and as puppets for the US govt. Apple isn't there yet, but who knows when they'll be compromised.

Apple was listed in some of the snowden docs right beside everyone else.

Re: Kaspersky: The Russian Company That Is a Danger to Our Security

#60

Post by efuquen »

downandout wrote: post #51
dkural wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA disagrees with you. Voting software suppliers and local election officials were targeted, not just DNC emails. https://theintercept.com/2017/06/05/top-secret-nsa-report-de... I do agree with you that without firm evidence & legal framework, the government should not victimize private business interests.

According to this article, voting machines were targeted, but it seems very unclear as to whether or not those attempts were successful or had any effect on anything at all. Previous reports have all concluded that no votes were actually affected by hacking, and this article strives to imply that votes were affected but has no facts to back that up. I would assume that attempts to gather information on and hack into…

Hacking the election doesn't mean having to actually flip votes, though the Russians clearly tried to do that and we don't know if they were successful. What is clear is that they tried to infiltrate election machines and the companies that produced them, on a grand scale. What is also clear is they waged a very successful propaganda campaign that pushed fake news stories, primarily through social media. Votes could have been effected by the former and almost certainly by the latter. Again, as the article points out below you wouldn't have to flip votes to effect outcomes, simply keeping people from voting could be enough, especially in a close election.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/us/politics/russia-electi...

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