I reported a safety issue with an Airbnb rental. All the smoke detectors had been removed. I even sent pictures. They didn't care.
Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines
51–60 of 111 posts
Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines
#52Man, the more I read stories like this about AirBnB the more I want them to fail. People hate regulations until they get screwed, and suddenly they understand that sometimes regulations exist for a reason. Beyond that though, what I despise is that AirBnB seems to reap all the profits and accept none of the blame. They fought to avoid paying taxes and whined when they lost, they refuse to take down listings when pres…
> Beyond that though, what I despise is that AirBnB seems to reap all the profits and accept none of the blame. I dunno; it seems to me that in these cases, the people who are really to blame are the "tenants" who are actually breaking both laws and rental agreements. I'm puzzled as to why the property owners aren't suing them to recover all the money they lost. I mean, yeah, lawsuits cost money, too, but when you're…
I'm sure many of them will try to sue later on but that's not an overnight process, it can take years for a lawsuit to make it's way through court. Plus the property owners don't even fully know what their full losses are yet, it's way too soon, the dust hasn't settled. $20,000 is too much for small claims court so it's going to be a big production. Furthermore, these scumbags are the type of people to say "LOL" to a legal judgement instead of paying it. That means more time in court to get wage and bank account garnishments (if they are even working). If they don't have the $20,000+ or a well paying job or assets then the judgement is worth as much as the paper it is written on, you can't get blood from a stone. If you get a wage garnishment you may collect your $20,000 in 10 years if you're lucky.
(Ignoring the fact it's a several months process to even evict a tenant in many states in the first place.)
You can't let AirBnB off the hook here, they have the moral, if not legal, responsibility to prevent the most egregious abuses of their platform.
Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
They leave the notice on the door. Tenant will typically take it down and toss it in the trash. And like a speeding parking tickets the fines get sent to the owner on record. Which is public record.
The government is more than capable of fining the tenant.
Nope. First of all, in many cases, they have no knowledge of who the tenant is. Second, tenants come and go - the city or county has a deed with the landlord's name on it and can put a lien against it to be sure they get paid. I'm a landlord; fines ALWAYS go to the property owner, then you have to go after the tenants to recoup your money.
Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm puzzled as to why the property owners aren't suing them to recover all the money they lost. I mean, yeah, lawsuits cost money, too, but when you're talking a $20k fine, I would imagine there's at least a good chance of recovering more than you pay...and it didn't sound like any of the mentioned owners were attempting to do anything to the bad-faith tenants. It sounds like you have never been a landlord. It's a fi…
So, it seems that regulations governing the relationship between the landlord and tenants is the real problem here. If it was easier to recover money from the tenants, and kick them off the property, this would not be a problem.
Given a choice between protecting the rights of the tenants and protecting the rights of the landlord, I think we should be very careful about leaning on the side of the tenants and I'm saying that as a former landlord. The landlord may lose money but the tenant could be homeless and living in unsafe conditions if you veer too much in the landlord's favor.
As far as making it easier to recover money. Since it is just another civil case, it would take a complete overhaul of civil court.
Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines
#55There's a widely accepted concept in land ownership: essentially the land belongs to the person that tills it. You cannot buy 1000 acres, ignore it and expect that your grandson can show up 60 years later with the deed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession
Maybe the homeowners should pay more attention to their properties? Not to mention that in most cases they are the ones posting the listings. If the tenant breaks the rules, sue him or keep the deposit.
But to be fair: the tenant should pay the fine, provided the landlord didn't give him the OK. The govt can easily find the true violator
Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Man, the more I read stories like this about AirBnB the more I want them to fail. People hate regulations until they get screwed, and suddenly they understand that sometimes regulations exist for a reason. Frankly, I feel the same about every single one of the prominent "sharing economy" / "gig economy" companies. Uber/Lyft and AirBnB just seem to be the worst of them because they're the most visible of the visible…
I'm interested to hear more about how Uber behaviour is inconsiderate. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the company itself - but the experience itself seems to be all round good. In the U.K. the drivers need to be registered for private hire and pay the appropriate insurance. In my experience the drivers abide by the law, are friendly and have nice clean cars. The service itself is miles better than traditional minic…
I drive on London every day. Uber drivers are perpetually distracted. Either looking for a pickup or aimlessly meandering waiting for their next job. There are some serious negative externalities, much like the article.
Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm puzzled as to why the property owners aren't suing them to recover all the money they lost. I mean, yeah, lawsuits cost money, too, but when you're talking a $20k fine, I would imagine there's at least a good chance of recovering more than you pay...and it didn't sound like any of the mentioned owners were attempting to do anything to the bad-faith tenants. It sounds like you have never been a landlord. It's a fi…
So, it seems that regulations governing the relationship between the landlord and tenants is the real problem here. If it was easier to recover money from the tenants, and kick them off the property, this would not be a problem.
Here's the deal: Tenants have rights because it's extremely easy for slumlords to take advantage of tenants - the power is completely in the landlord's hands without regulations. Poor tenant protections often leads to very serious negative externalities to society as a whole. History is filled with examples.
Unfortunately, tenants do take advantage of landlord-tenant laws sometimes, and that is terrible. Savvy swindlers can use the system to their advantage.
Being hard to recover money from individuals has absolutely nothing to do with landlord-tenant law and everything to do with the fact most individual people don't have tens of thousands of dollars sitting around to pay legal judgements. You'd have these sorts of issues anytime you sue someone else for anything. Best case scenario is that the person who you are suing has the proper liability insurance that will pay the judgement for them. (Liability is included with homeowners insurance and renters insurance but doesn't usually cover intentional actions)
Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines
#58One solution would be to have the city levy the fines against the tenant, not the owner, because it is the tenant breaking the law.
They leave the notice on the door. Tenant will typically take it down and toss it in the trash. And like a speeding parking tickets the fines get sent to the owner on record. Which is public record.
Yeah, but eventually it will have to be cleared. This day my car was being driven by XX, or my apt was being leased to John Smith.
While landlords can be more proactive, this goes against all common sense and fairness. If my tenant grows weed or kills a person in the basement, should I go to jail?
Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm interested to hear more about how Uber behaviour is inconsiderate. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the company itself - but the experience itself seems to be all round good. In the U.K. the drivers need to be registered for private hire and pay the appropriate insurance. In my experience the drivers abide by the law, are friendly and have nice clean cars. The service itself is miles better than traditional minic…
> I'm interested to hear more about how Uber behaviour is inconsiderate. Certainly, and I think I can sum up why you and I have different experiences in another quote: > In the U.K. Your government didn't bend to the "but they're just shaaaaaaring so being licensed is haaaaard " bullshit that many governments here did. (Austin, Texas tried to pull it off and the Legislature of the State of Texas smacked them, hard.)…
Just to add another pain point, in Orlando drivers hire out immigrants to drive for them. I've had many rides where the person driving speaks no English and doesn't match the profile pic despite the car plates matching and having the lyft/Uber app open with my details. Many complaints to Lyft and Uber and nothing has been done so far as I can tell. And as you'd expect those drivers don't obey the laws at all. Last driver I had ran every single red light and stop sign.
Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines
#60There's a widely accepted concept in land ownership: essentially the land belongs to the person that tills it. You cannot buy 1000 acres, ignore it and expect that your grandson can show up 60 years later with the deed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession Maybe the homeowners should pay more attention to their properties? Not to mention that in most cases they are the ones posting the listings. If the te…
Yeah, I was struck by how both examples in the article were property owners living out of state who never even met their tenants? One of them thought she was renting to a family with two kids, but it was actually some scammers. Meeting your renters in-person once would have cleared that up.
These people are buying a property, renting it to cover the mortgage, and planning to sell it at a profit. All without doing any work. Treating real estate as a passive investment rather than an active business does damage to the housing market in some of the same ways people complain AirBnB does.