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Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

blogs.remobjects.com

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Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#51

Post by watwut »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #40
dpatriarche wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Eclipse for working in Java, and I love IntelliJ for working in Kotlin. My impression is that people who don't like IDEs haven't put the effort into figuring out how to use them effectively -- modern IDEs have incredible power to increase productivity, but you have to learn how, and you have to make some accommodations in how you work. I say this from experience: I started my career coding C/C++ in Emacs and I…

My general experience is that Java needs an IDE because the language forces a bunch of boilerplate and a file/directory structure that is very difficult to navigate without a bunch of tooling. However, in other languages, the gap between the IDE experience and the well-configured vim/emacs experience is much narrower.

Only because IDEs in other languages are weak as hell. It is not directory structure/boilerplate. It is code completion, analysis, discovery and all other similar goodies. It is just so much slower to produce the same functionality as you are used to.

Even basic things - ability to see all callers, all available methods, warnings on bad constructs and yeah, templates for often needed sysouts ...

Refactoring. Oh just a simple thing, like simplest of all available refactorings, rename something with zero worries about forgetting some place or changing one more ... I missed this ability so much ...

Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#52

Post by dwarfland »

gfredtech wrote: post #22
jnordwick wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iodine is a full superset of regular Java, but provides enhanced abilities that will make writing Java code easier and more productive. All your existing Java code should compile right away (just copy it over), and you can start making use of the enhancements, right away. For the initial release, these include: optional type inference with the var keyword "out" and "by-reference" parameters type extensions partial cl…

Great, but why is it not totally free? It says on the page Try Iodine for free. When you click further, it is a 30-day free trial of some sort, and you need your email to download: http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/iodine/

"Great, but why is it not totally free?"

because rent and food isn't, either.

Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#53

Post by dwarfland »

Nullabillity wrote: post #47
brad0 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a JVM language? I'm asking because the site won't load for me.

The opposite, it seems. They got rid of the good parts (the JVM and the industry's best IDE ecosystem), kept the bad (the Java language), added their own lockin-flavoured herbs and spices, and now they have the gall to charge $800/seat for the mess. What a joke.

"The opposite, it seems. They got rid of the good parts (the JVM and the industry's best IDE ecosystem), kept the bad (the Java language), added their own lockin-flavoured herbs and spices"

no, that's just entirely false.

Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#54

Post by watwut »

badpenny wrote: post #27
arkadiytehgraet wrote: post #21

I don't get it: there is already a widely accepted 'better' Java called Kotlin, that features much more than this: way better integration with IDEs, way better integration with existing Java codebases, better everything... Yet somehow we should start using NEW IDE with NEW language supported by completely unknown company with zero guarantees about its support. I just don't get it.

I don't know what it is about programmers that we seem to love reinventing the wheel.

It is usually fun exercise that has little certainty (you know what to do and even how if you bother to study) in it, but is still intellectually satisfying. Usually great learning experience. Once in a while, project that wins over others (requires a lot of bullshitting on conferences tho).

Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#56

Post by dwarfland »

eropple wrote: post #39
SureshG wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's called Kotlin, better than C# IMO.

Kotlin is cool but it's not C#. The project that's most "C# for the JVM" is called Stab and it's widely rumored that it was (as its an anonymous project) a precursor to Kotlin on the side.

RemObjects C# is exactly that. C# language, compiles for JVM (and Cocoa and .NET and native Windows/Linux/Android NDK, as well).

Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#57

Post by agumonkey »

dajohnson89 wrote: post #41
agumonkey wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eclipse for Java is ok, but Eclipse needs and lackluster made me write many emacs lisp extension (and not because of eclipse ergonomics, for handling build time parameters), that says something.

I have to use eclipse for my work, and as lifelong intellij user eclipse is awful awful awful. It takes the fun out of working.

Eclipse had issues, everything has issues, but it's been awful for years. I don't understand how they keep going.

Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#58

Post by pjmlp »

skybrian wrote: post #45
buzzybee wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RemObjects is not unknown. You're just new.

New to me though it looks like they've been around for decades. What are they best known for?

They have an Object Pascal for .NET that was the basis of Delphi for .NET.

Codegear had a partnership with them.

They were also the only company to offer a Swift compiler, before Apple released it as open source.

Re: Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

#60

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

watwut wrote: post #51
fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My general experience is that Java needs an IDE because the language forces a bunch of boilerplate and a file/directory structure that is very difficult to navigate without a bunch of tooling. However, in other languages, the gap between the IDE experience and the well-configured vim/emacs experience is much narrower.

Only because IDEs in other languages are weak as hell. It is not directory structure/boilerplate. It is code completion, analysis, discovery and all other similar goodies. It is just so much slower to produce the same functionality as you are used to. Even basic things - ability to see all callers, all available methods, warnings on bad constructs and yeah, templates for often needed sysouts ... Refactoring. Oh just…

I can generally use macros in vim + vim integrations for things like ag or rg to do refactorings fairly easily: sure, it's not as automatic as Intellij, but it's not bad either.

Also, depending on the language, the tooling in Emacs can get all the other IDE features you are talking about: for haskell there's ghc-mod + intero, for common lisp there's slime, etc. if you install the appropriate plugins and then use something like Syntastic/Flycheck, you can have all the nice editing abilities of vim/emacs as well as most of the useful parts of an IDE's language support.

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