Live data from Hacker News

The first ICO unicorns are here

techcrunch.com

51–60 of 60 posts

Re: The first ICO unicorns are here

#51

This is a bit off topic, but bear with me: so far, nearly every comment in this thread has contained some degree cynicism toward cryptocurrency-related funding. Why does HN have such a distaste for cryptocurrencies? Why can't we just have an intelligent conversation about this new technology? Why do we have all the negativity and downvotes for any remotely positive comments related to cryptocurrencies? This is super…

I'm an active Ether developer working on several independent projects. I also have some investment coins in Ethereum and Bitcoin.

Here are my concerns:

* These ICOs are raising Series D level capital from investors at Seed Round risks. So while we can expect that most of these will fail, it's tens of billions of value erased. The market cap for Ethereum (and their ICO tokens) is close to $100bn[1], largely in the last 3 months. It's one thing when 90 startups at $1M in investments fail. Not when they're a billion a pop. The total market cap for Cryptocurrencies nearly doubled in the last month.

* September has over 100 additional ICOs slated[2].

* Most of these ICOs are a slick website and a PDF document. Take decentraland. It raised $25M in 35 seconds. Here's their website[3] and their PDF plan. It's a virtual reality game, and they spend twice as many pages talking about their token economy than the entire engine of their platform. Here's how they're going to "solve" their decentralized content distribution:

> The current solution uses the battle-tested BitTorrent and Kademlia DHT networks by storing a magnet link for each parcel. However, the Inter-Planetary File System (IPFS) provides a compelling alternative as its technology matures.

> However, hosting these files and the bandwidth required to serve this content has significant costs. Currently, users of the Decentraland P2P network are seeding the content without compensation and out of goodwill. However, in the future, this infrastructure cost can be covered by the use of protocols like Filecoin [...]

They similarly gloss over 3D meshes, sounds, scripting languages with payment (!!!), voice chat, etc. I could go on. Out of 7 people officially involved, only one is a self proclaimed tech. This is MOST ICO proposals. Remember that got $25M in 35 seconds. Does this look like a proposal for a serious investment? I'm shitting on Decentraland, but they are hardly alone in the lack of clarity or seriousness for such an ambitious project.

* On a pragmatic level, the constant shift in value of the various coins makes it nearly impossible to build stable marketplaces to actually USE the tokens. I have to shelve a bill-and-rent-splitting app for now because I can't trust the token not to drop/inflate in value over a day. The same thing with attempting to price a good or service over more than a week, as seen by the spread on Ethlance[5].

* Fraud, scams, phishing, hacks, it's all there. Half the time these ICOs have their websites and email lists hacked, and the hackers send out pre-ICO notices and pilfer coins. Happens all the time. Enigma, the security ICO, was comically hacked when the founder used the same password as Ashley Madison[6].

You might notice I haven't talked about the tech much. Honestly it's some of the coolest stuff I've seen ever. Or at least since BitTorrent. The concept of machine-managed economic transactions, housed in a distributed, secure, and consensus-based public ledger, has the power to disintermediate in ways not possible since the Internet first started. But god I wish people would stop setting money on fire.

[1]: https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/

[2]: https://www.coinschedule.com/

[3]: https://decentraland.org/

[4]: https://decentraland.org/whitepaper.pdf

[5]: https://ethlance.com/#/find/candidates?cat=10&o=0&xhr=10

[6]: https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/21/hack-enigma-500000-ico/

EDIT: I can't type grammar good.

Re: The first ICO unicorns are here

#52
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't directly about cryptocurrencies. I think it's more about, at least for me, the fact that a technology as promising, useful, and technically impressive as Bitcoin / the blockchain is being trivialized to such a high degree recently. It's being exploited by capitalists who don't fully understand the tech or its implications but who see a way to make some quick cash. Couple all of this with the fact that the…

I'm not very concerned about the 99% of these startups/cryptocurrencies that will inevitably fail. It's a given that most of them will not be successful. It would be foolish, however, to assume that there won't be a handful of these startups that go on to actually change the world in a big way. Bitcoin, arguably, is already quite far along in that regard.

I think it's foolish to assume anything right now, one way or the other. If you desire a particular outcome, the best thing you could do right now would be to figure out how you can help make it so.

Re: The first ICO unicorns are here

#53
post #2

> The OMG token sale, which raised $25 million, took place in July and initially one OMG token was worth around $0.27. Today, the value is at more than $11, giving a return of more than 40X to anyone who bought in at the ICO stage. > Another startling fact to note is that neither company has an actual product in the market right now. Although that is common with ICOs because investors buy into a product roadmap that…

> No, don't worry, this isn't a bubble.

Crypto is definitely a bubble. Perhaps one of the biggest bubbles to burst when this happens four to five years from now.

> I need to start thinking of a few product roadmaps

I know you are being facetious, but it really is not as simple as putting out a roadmap. Think about it: If you could pull this off, but are not doing it, you'll have us believe you are willingly turning down millions. If you can't pull it of, your comment becomes a cheap meaningless jab at things bigger than you. Both options are quite unbefitting of HackerNews.

> You also have to write a whitepaper.

http://plasma.io/ Pay attention to mentions of "micropayments".

Re: The first ICO unicorns are here

#54

This is a bit off topic, but bear with me: so far, nearly every comment in this thread has contained some degree cynicism toward cryptocurrency-related funding. Why does HN have such a distaste for cryptocurrencies? Why can't we just have an intelligent conversation about this new technology? Why do we have all the negativity and downvotes for any remotely positive comments related to cryptocurrencies? This is super…

HackerNews used to be all about cryptocurrencies. I think the original Satoshi paper was posted here soon after it was released. But about your cynicism-remark, this never changed. People that jumped on the opportunity were too busy to post on HN. People that did not, well... this is the first ever comment on HN about Bitcoin, 3037 days ago:

Well this is an exceptionally cute idea, but there is absolutely no way that anyone is going to have any faith in this currency. [1]

> Why can't we just have an intelligent conversation about this new technology?

It is quite the same with HN and SEO: Because there are a few scumbags in the SEO space that are very obvious for HN readers, every thread about optimizing websites for search engines has a negative sentiment.

This technology has a lot of obvious scumbags too. Now the companies in the article did not get to a billion market cap by being scumware. Speculators just assume the value of the coin will rise (again) with increased adoption of the technology.

Then I think a lot of early HN posters moved elsewhere or just stick to read-only mode. Also, maybe, "me too hates this!" is more popular on HN than "I like this".

I agree it is a shame that there isn't a single comment about the technology of the two ICO unicorns in the article. About successfully skipping VC and crowdfunding your next startup by issuing a token.

Instead we get a thread that is pushed off the front page, due to more comments than upvotes, most of the comments talking about unrelated scams or conflating value of distributed tokens with business evaluation.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=599852

Re: The first ICO unicorns are here

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting investors in other startups are not also speculators? Do you think every silicon valley startup is destined to succeed and be the next Google/Apple/FB? The tech is cool, and the new funding model is also fascinating. Never before has it been possible for everyone to participate in the early funding of startups. Sure, most will fail, but that's not different from the old model. The biggest differenc…

Big difference: when you invest in a startup, you get equity and certain rights. The founders can't screw you too easily. With an ICO, you don't get any equity - you only get to use a service, maybe, in the future. Most ICOs are therefore only a speculation.

From the article:

> The incentive for holding OMGs, is to take part in the network validation process. We also see a long term value/appreciation in the OMG price as more and more transactions take place on the network.

So you can stake your tokens for a cut of the transaction fees (much like miners do).

Re: The first ICO unicorns are here

#57

This is a bit off topic, but bear with me: so far, nearly every comment in this thread has contained some degree cynicism toward cryptocurrency-related funding. Why does HN have such a distaste for cryptocurrencies? Why can't we just have an intelligent conversation about this new technology? Why do we have all the negativity and downvotes for any remotely positive comments related to cryptocurrencies? This is super…

[deleted]

Re: The first ICO unicorns are here

#58
post #5

> initially one OMG token was worth around $0.27. Today, the value is at more than $11, giving a return of more than 40X to anyone who bought in at the ICO stage. You too can become a millionaire from these penny stocks.

See, I'll play the lottery. I don't mind paying a dollar or two every now and again for the EV- hope of being undeservedly wealthy.

But even with a 40x return you need to dump TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS into a highly risky investment to make a single million dollars. Christ on a cracker, $25,000. That's a year of frugal living in most places. How could you even ... ?

Re: The first ICO unicorns are here

#60
post #2

> The OMG token sale, which raised $25 million, took place in July and initially one OMG token was worth around $0.27. Today, the value is at more than $11, giving a return of more than 40X to anyone who bought in at the ICO stage. > Another startling fact to note is that neither company has an actual product in the market right now. Although that is common with ICOs because investors buy into a product roadmap that…

> No, don't worry, this isn't a bubble. Crypto is definitely a bubble. Perhaps one of the biggest bubbles to burst when this happens four to five years from now. > I need to start thinking of a few product roadmaps I know you are being facetious, but it really is not as simple as putting out a roadmap. Think about it: If you could pull this off, but are not doing it, you'll have us believe you are willingly turning d…

It's not a question of turning down free millions of dollars. There is risk. If he puts his face on the operation he could be the subject of lawsuits if or when it blows up. It's also possible but very expensive to do an ICO and not violate securities laws. So he either puts fourth the massive time and capital to do it legally or he risks heavy fines and lawsuits. The lawsuits will probably come no matter what.
Post reply on HN