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Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

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Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#51
post #47

I'm still just trying to figure out what "Dota" stands for. Is it an acronym? Neither the Valve website or Wikipedia clarify this!

The original Warcraft mod was called Defense of the Ancients, the Valve title Dota 2 as far as I know always has been just Dota

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#52
post #47

I'm still just trying to figure out what "Dota" stands for. Is it an acronym? Neither the Valve website or Wikipedia clarify this!

Funny story. The original term "DOTA" was an acronym, for "Defense of the Ancients", which was the original Warcraft 3 mod of which the later game, "Dota 2", was based. Since the original DOTA was a community mod using assets from a commercial (IE, trademarked) Blizzard property, it was in sort of a gray area in regards to re-commercialization of what was essentially the same gameplay and characters. To avoid further standing for Blizzard to reclaim its trademarked properties, Valve registered the trademark "Dota" specifically as a word that doesn't refer to anything, officially eliminating the acronym from the name and somehow distancing the new engine from trouble with the trademark.

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#53
post #42

there was a "discussion" on nadota.com about the bot and the semipro player that openai used to test chimed in. apparently the set of items the bot chose to purchase from was limited[1] and recommended by the semipro tester. As someone who knows next to nothing about ai, my question is this: the bot was announced on stage as blank slate, dumped into dota, and built entirely from grinding countless games against itsel…

(I work at OpenAI.) We'll have another blog post coming in the next few days. But as a sneak peek: we use self-play to learn everything that depends on an interaction with the opponent. Didn't need to with those that don't (e.g. fixed item builds, separately learned creep block).

Can you give us a sneak peak of OpenAI's approach to 5v5 Dota? :D

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#54
post #28
post #9

It worths noting that, shortly after they offer SF arcana (extremely rare item), 50 people did go and beat the bot on the spot.

The strategy that was used, seems to be surprise the AI and mess up it's decision tree: The general strategy is to win by claiming first tower. At 0:00, you aggro the enemy creep wave so that they start following you. Then you walk around in a circle around the jungle, and the enemy wave will start to form a congo line that will follow you around. You then path around the jungle so that on the next wave spawn, you ca…

This is, admittedly, a weird enough strategy that a human player would probably get flustered and respond with suboptimal choices, just like the AI did. A human would probably adapt to the situation more quickly, though.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if a few people are trying this strategy in pub games now, just for shits and giggles. :)

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not worried about actual AGI; infinitely powerful, not bound to the whims of any person or conglomerate. I see human atrocities born out of weakness, so I'm not worried about something that would have gain nothing from torturing or destroying us. That's assuming it can do and think everything we can, and doesn't need us as slaves. E.g. I like sparrows lots. I don't understand them, I wouldn't want them in my room…

Well I think that's a reasonable thought but in my opinion it's not really describing AGI. Rather, it's describing something near AGI that can be controlled. That's why I am vociferously against the "Friendly AI" movement, because fundamentally humans aren't friendly - and that doesn't mean friendly in terms of agreeable or altruistic. Rather "Friendly" as used in the FAI sense, means "Does not reject or override the…

If I had only the two choices, I would absolutely choose unconstrained, actual AGI over something controllable.

But that's because the way things are going, I see mostly doom and gloom anyway; controlled AI will increase that, uncontrollable ones are at least wildcards. I'm not proud to feel that way, but I do. I have little hope for the human resistance against other humans that has been necessary for so long and just isn't forthcoming -- and even either AGI or humanity spreading so far over the galaxy that some pockets get cut off from the MCP seem more likely. But that's still the lame option, the honorable one is to get our stuff together and then go to space and create AI. As long as I live, I will "work" on that, I certainly will not go into the night gently.

Unless that "paradigm shift" happens, technology will continue to serve capital, and unless you can make the "jump" in total seclusion, so nobody knows what you're doing until it's too late, there will always be people with guns to have a word with you. Still godspeed but that's how I see it.

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#56
post #7

Pretty much agree with everything in here. As I said in my earlier posting (and this blog post reiterates), a 1v1 Shadowfiend mid is highly technical and does not require a huge search space (like in Go or Chess) or any judgment; all it takes is a few tactics (e.g. creep blocking) and good aim for the razes. Also, the bot was already beaten 50+ times[1]. There are at least 3 strategies that work. It just goes to show…

This whole OpenAI gets hyped a lot on HN - it's interesting who is behind OpenAI. They are misusing the "Open" name as there is no substantial open in OpenAI - it's also no open source project - it's not related to OpenGL, OpenAL, etc at all!

I don't get the hype around AI bots for StarCraft 2 and DotA 2. There is nothing special now, we had such bots developed for many years.

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#57
I see Elon Musk tweets as a warning about the potential of AI, not a hype of AI nor the current stage of AI.

The most impressive part to me is that the bots are self-learned. On the other hand, AlphaGo is supervisored. They are different (not to say which one is better).

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#58
post #41
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What hero do you think would be a better test?

Either, (a) high risk/reward heroes: Pudge, Huskar, maybe Weaver or Puck, or (b) highly complex heroes: Invoker, Morphling, Earth Spirit, Nature's Prophet, Techies, maybe Meepo.

Would love to see courier snipe from lv 1 by NP or even man fight in the base

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be impressive about that? How's that something to get hyped for? I was being somewhat fatuous, as that is a common scare scenario. However, I do believe that it should be our goal as a human species, to create AGI as our intellectual successor. In the same way someone's child replaces them and they die, I think AGI should be our offspring and we as a species go peacefully into oblivion. It's my life's work…

I'd rather first deal with the excessed of greed resulting from psychopathology, because any successor of not doing that, multiplying the failure to do that by "infinite". I don't consider us even born, we're still in a holding pattern, about to be aborted. > I think AGI should be our offspring and we as a species go peacefully into oblivion. This isn't "out there". Just start with religious apocalyptic visions of de…

Your translation is definitely crude, but I'm completely fascinated by it.

I think it speaks to the part of hipster-ism that people react so strongly against. Why enjoy things 'ironically', or spend the effort becoming a connoisseur and a snob when you should really just enjoy things on a basic level. Like what you like, and rejoice in it.

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