Live data from Hacker News

To Protect Voting, Use Open-Source Software

mobile.nytimes.com

51–60 of 237 posts

Re: To Protect Voting, Use Open-Source Software

#51
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paper ballots without voter ID requirement are ridiculous.

The UK seems to manage OK (ID is only required in Northern Ireland). 2015 saw 37 allegations of personation out of 51.4 million votes cast ( https://www.ncpolitics.uk/2016/12/how-big-a-problem-is-votin... ).

Yes. My point would be allegations of personation is a meaningless number. Because if there is no voter ID you would not get many of these allegations either way.

Re: To Protect Voting, Use Open-Source Software

#52
post #38

I'm not a crypto fanboy or anything, but I feel like voting is a great application of blockchain technology. It seems like the system could be made to be both anonymous and publicly verifiable, and the vote count would return more or less immediately.

Uh. Blockchain is just a doubly-linked list with hashes. And a set of rules how the peers validate blocks and come to a consensus. Not some magic crypto pixie dust that brings anonymity or prevents fraud.

It could come useful, e.g., for keeping census data to avoid some forms of fraud. E.g. prevent rouge organizers loading elections with "dead souls" voters (Gogol-style). But I don't see any immediate use for election themselves.

Say, the blocks would store anonymized votes (nothing about blockchain itself implements the anonymization). One immediate issue I see is that blockchain only verifies integrity of the blocks after they're in there and out to the public, so it could be verified. Sending them too early would skew election results (observers would be able to see the intermediate results and bias their votes accordingly), and sending them too late would probably make blockchain mostly pointless.

Re: To Protect Voting, Use Open-Source Software

#53
post #4

To protect voting, use paper ballots.

Paper ballots without voter ID requirement are ridiculous.

Works fine in the UK, voter fraud is tricky (although there have been cases with postal votes) when there's a piece of paper that can be physically counted again.

Very hard to defraud if you are in, purely for example, Russia.

Re: To Protect Voting, Use Open-Source Software

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most fraud other than most primitive attempts by idiots goes unnoticed. If voter ID is not required it is not possible to prevent people who don't have right to vote from voting.

> Most fraud other than most primitive attempts by idiots goes unnoticed. You know this how, exactly?

It is my personal opinion. I think it's logical that it is easier to fraudulently vote if you don't need a voter ID.

Re: To Protect Voting, Use Open-Source Software

#55

I'd like to reference Tom Scott's video[0] here. There is no need for an electronic voting system, paper ballots work perfectly. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI

Until you want to scale due to using rapid direct democracy. Paper ballots will still WORK perfectly, but the workload will be massive.

Re: To Protect Voting, Use Open-Source Software

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paper ballots without voter ID requirement are ridiculous.

Works fine in the UK, voter fraud is tricky (although there have been cases with postal votes) when there's a piece of paper that can be physically counted again. Very hard to defraud if you are in, purely for example, Russia.

Lots of EU nationals living in UK who have no right to vote. But they are physically in UK. I think vast majority of them would never think about fraudulently voting.

But think about it logically, if voter ID is not required than it is easier to fraudulently vote. That seems logical to me. Do you have counter argument?

Re: To Protect Voting, Use Open-Source Software

#58
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That should be solved by issuing a free government ID, not by compromising and creating a giant loophole when potentially citizens of other countries can vote in your election and there is no way to verify that.

If you're primarily worried about attacks which can modify the result of elections, your threat model is broken.

What should you be primarily worried about? It's like serving your e-commerce website over HTTP because there have been very few security breaches. Why not get a certificate and use HTTPS? It's a massive improvement in security for a very small cost.

Re: To Protect Voting, Use Open-Source Software

#59
post #3

Electronic voting is a bad idea and I'd be suspicious on anyone trying to promote it. How can you know that even if the source code for the voting machine is open, the voting machine is running the exact same source code? How can you know nobody has tampered the code the instance is running? I'm glad my country is still running on paper ballots and glad we require voter ID.

There are attempts to create an end-to-end auditable voting systems. Where you don't have to trust the organizers or machinery to not trick you, and you can validate that your vote was counted correctly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-to-end_auditable_voting_sy... Sadly, as far as I know, none is without issues (older systems were found to have various problems, and newer stuff is still bleeding edge that wasn't y…

The wikipedia link mainly mentions crypto-methods...how exactly is a non-engineer supposed to end to end verify this? If you use paper ballots you can simply sit down and count...heck not even that basic math if you get creative with sorting

Re: To Protect Voting, Use Open-Source Software

#60
post #3

Electronic voting is a bad idea and I'd be suspicious on anyone trying to promote it. How can you know that even if the source code for the voting machine is open, the voting machine is running the exact same source code? How can you know nobody has tampered the code the instance is running? I'm glad my country is still running on paper ballots and glad we require voter ID.

Where is the good old Anonymous when we need them? We need a high-profile hack of some local elections to drive that point home. Something done completely for teh lulz, leading to a result so absurd the elections would have to be redone.

At defcon this year they had a bunch of the popular electronic voting booths set up, and they were all hacked within 6 hours. A big problem is having physical access to the booth. All of the hacks involve picking a lock.
Post reply on HN