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How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

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Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#51

Post by jrockway »

state_machine wrote: post #44
bogomipz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"I've only done much less hellish Grand Central version, and I think Metro North publishes track assignments much earlier." There is so much more space to wait for track assignments as well as space on the grand stairwell to get down to the track in Grand Central(even with tourists) that I don't think they are comparable at all. If the Metro North does publish assignments much earlier it's likely because its much sa…

Yeah, that's fair. If I have to take LIRR, I'll generally use Atlantic and switch at Jamaica if needed -- anything to avoid Penn.

If you're trying to get a seat on a train that originates at Penn, changing at Jamaica doesn't help, however.

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#52

Post by jrockway »

DontSueMeBro wrote: post #31

I've been collecting Penn Station NJT and LIRR track assignment data for almost a year now. I've been intending to use ML to predict track assignment, but haven't gotten there yet. I should post it to Kaggle or somewhere similar.

Do you think the track assignment is something that's learnable? I feel like there is some schedule where, under normal operations, the train will end up. But then there are unpredictable events that cause this to change.

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#53

Post by Symbiote »

bradleyjg wrote: post #34

For about a year a decade and a half ago, I commuted into and out of Penn Station with my father who had been doing so since the late 70s. Not only did he know which track any of a half dozen trains that he might take would come in on but he knew where the doors would open for each of the tracks. And he wasn't the only one either. If you went down before they announced the tracks you'd see little clusters of people w…

The London version is now an app. I think it used to be available as some kind of map.

http://www.tubeexits.co.uk/

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#54

Post by dreamcompiler »

FussyZeus wrote: post #12
state_machine wrote: post #4

I can see why the MTA wouldn't want you telling people to go to a track before it is actually assigned -- if the train ends up on a different track, now you need to get all those people back up, off that platform an on to the new one, clogging stairs that that people who actually wanted that platform might be trying to use too. Obviously it would be nice to assign tracks earlier, so that people can head straight to t…

Thing is though, they could be providing that data MUCH earlier both on the displays and to a phone app. It's not like they don't decide where a train is going until it gets to the station, that would be ridiculous, they'd have to know a while in advance to make sure the track is available, clear, operating correctly, and do all the necessary switching (and more importantly, do so in such a way that doesn't impact ot…

Based on the other comments here, I'm guessing they don't post train numbers until the arriving train has disembarked so its passengers can clear the platform before the horde arrives. It probably has nothing to do with technology.

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#55

Post by mustacheemperor »

EGreg wrote: post #23
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author didn't do that, though. As far as MTA is concerned the app was always using an API he had been given a legitimate key for. As an aside, fuck websites that prohibit scraping. If you send me some bytes I'm gonna do whatever I damn well please with them.

In that case screw your API, if you allow DDOS I may as well do it for the lulz. Isn't it the same approach? If you can abuse a site you will, because they opened themselves up to the public?

That's an illogical extreme. I don't think anyone thinks that, rather, the question is whether this app was an abuse of MTA's system. They claim wide distribution of the app is a hazard. Really, it's not like MTA is stopping anyone with the inclination to do this themselves. If it's as reliable as the author says, you could do it without any automation if you were patient enough. Downvoting because that kind of exaggerated strawman reduces the quality of discussion with no benefit.

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#56

Post by jfries »

For Penn Station in particular, one can beat the crowd by heading downstairs and looking at the small CRT under the stairs. You will see the platform assignment at the same time as the crowd, but you are closer to the platforms and don't have to use the same stairs as everyone else.

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#57

Post by losteverything »

spyspy wrote: post #17
state_machine wrote: post #4

I can see why the MTA wouldn't want you telling people to go to a track before it is actually assigned -- if the train ends up on a different track, now you need to get all those people back up, off that platform an on to the new one, clogging stairs that that people who actually wanted that platform might be trying to use too. Obviously it would be nice to assign tracks earlier, so that people can head straight to t…

Have you ever taken a rush hour train at Penn Station? The alternative (i.e. current system) is everyone congregates on the concourse staring at the platform screens, and when a new one pops up hundreds of people flood in the direction of that platform in a mad dash. It's a mess.

This mad dash is a great secondary tourist must see.

The island's population doubles (1) each workday.

This view of everyday life for many is worthwhile to observe.

As well as "dont talk on the train" rule - but you have to ride at commuter times

(1) nyt 6/3/13 commuters from the other boroughs and outside the city nearly double Manhattan’s population, from 1.6 million to 3.1 million.

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#58

Post by genmon »

Symbiote wrote: post #53
bradleyjg wrote: post #34

For about a year a decade and a half ago, I commuted into and out of Penn Station with my father who had been doing so since the late 70s. Not only did he know which track any of a half dozen trains that he might take would come in on but he knew where the doors would open for each of the tracks. And he wasn't the only one either. If you went down before they announced the tracks you'd see little clusters of people w…

The London version is now an app. I think it used to be available as some kind of map. http://www.tubeexits.co.uk/

It's also a feature in Citymapper. Only front/middle/back but the integration means I use the information more often

https://citymapper.com/news/726/where-to-get-on-the-train

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#59

Post by davidjbain »

lukegb wrote: post #5

As an interesting, although unrelated aside: platform data is available in the UK's National Rail's feeds, but the terms and conditions[1] explicitly prohibit displaying platform numbers early, as mentioned in their developer guidelines[2]. I guess the wording doesn't technically ban you from displaying historical platform information, but that would likely be a bad-faith use of the data anyway... [1] http://www.nati…

UK rail data is quite open in comparison to this story, for instance check out these live track diagrams (of London Waterloo & many other areas) which show real-time movements of trains. This is how I often find out the platform numbers prior to travel and I also get information before staff during disruption.

http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/wat#T_WAT

Re: How MTA shut down my app for Penn Station commuters

#60

Post by candiodari »

CPLX wrote: post #24
state_machine wrote: post #4

I can see why the MTA wouldn't want you telling people to go to a track before it is actually assigned -- if the train ends up on a different track, now you need to get all those people back up, off that platform an on to the new one, clogging stairs that that people who actually wanted that platform might be trying to use too. Obviously it would be nice to assign tracks earlier, so that people can head straight to t…

It's more serious than that even, it's a safety issue. The platforms are fairly narrow and have no railings, and they aren't designed to hold two full train loads of people at the same time. If a full train pulls up and the platform is already full people are going to end up on the tracks. I haven't seen this at Penn but I have seen the issue happen in the subway when there are train delays. When this happens the MTA…

So what you mean to say, with safety issue, is that government-provided infrastructure is so badly designed and ill-equipped to be used at the necessary scale attempts to improve matters must be stopped !
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