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China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

bloomberg.com

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Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#51

Post by [deleted] »

68c12c16 wrote: post #47
dis-sys wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like it or not, the GFW helped to created the "most dramatic periods of economic development" in Chinese history. Back in 2010, when Google chose to exit China, many argued the exact same that China is isolating itself from the outside. Such feeling is understandable from a western point of view, I mean for anyone from a western background there is simply no Internet if google/twitter/fb etc. are all unavailable. How…

> Like it or not, the GFW helped to created the "most dramatic > periods of economic development" in Chinese history. Like it or not, several thousands of years ago in ancient Egypt, slavery helped to build many great pyramids -- the "most dramatic periods of economic development" in ancient Egyptian history... > You don't need Google/fb/twitter etc to have > booming Internet/high tech economy. But one does need Goog…

[deleted]

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#52

Post by 68c12c16 »

dis-sys wrote: post #37
chairmanwow wrote: post #32

From my experience in China, it seems that the vast majority of Chinese citizens have no idea what a VPN is and or why they would use it. Friends of mine that are Chinese citizens that study abroad in the US make extensive use of VPNs to circumvent the GFW. Every technology company that I've come across in China has invested a great deal of effort into establishing stable VPN connections. I have seen several "VPN mic…

Like it or not, the GFW helped to created the "most dramatic periods of economic development" in Chinese history. Back in 2010, when Google chose to exit China, many argued the exact same that China is isolating itself from the outside. Such feeling is understandable from a western point of view, I mean for anyone from a western background there is simply no Internet if google/twitter/fb etc. are all unavailable. How…

Yes, like you are winning the argument by double down-voting my post without giving a word of reasoning...

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#53

Post by imron »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #14
iliketosleep wrote: post #12

Previously, there was an implicit understanding that the Great Firewall was in place to prevent unauthorised access to the Internet by the masses. This is to prevent them from being influenced by foreign media, prevent too much information leakage of citizen info (e.g. via facebook), and to give Chinese tech companies a monopoly in China. If, however, you had the will and ability to use VPN software, the government u…

That was never the official or even the implicit position. There has always been a war with VPNs, want VPNs work and don't can change monthly, and it's been like that for the last 10 years. Xi's nationalism is nothing new here, they just think that the tech is good enough to cut off VPNS for good now. China has been trying to close their internet since after the Olympics. It isn't surprising that they would eventuall…

Since well before the Olympics actually. I was in China when 9/11 happened and for a brief period of time they opened access to a large number of previously blocked foreign news sites so that people could read what was happening.

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#54

Post by imron »

68c12c16 wrote: post #52
dis-sys wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like it or not, the GFW helped to created the "most dramatic periods of economic development" in Chinese history. Back in 2010, when Google chose to exit China, many argued the exact same that China is isolating itself from the outside. Such feeling is understandable from a western point of view, I mean for anyone from a western background there is simply no Internet if google/twitter/fb etc. are all unavailable. How…

Yes, like you are winning the argument by double down-voting my post without giving a word of reasoning...

You can't downvote people who reply to you, so more likely is that rather than being 'double downvoted' by someone, multiple people find your argument unpersuasive.

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#55

Post by barry-cotter »

dis-sys wrote: post #39
duncan_bayne wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't the first time, either. https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/663/why-did-chin...

it is completely different, in the 15th Century, the Haijin policy was used to stop "barbarians" from flooding the country. there is nothing to gain from trading with the rest of the world because the country was ranked No.1 in the world in almost all metrics. today's GFW is to protect a young but fast growing industry - because the overall economy is not that strong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage

The rest of the world totally did have things the Chinese wanted, silver and gold. Not much else at that stage to be fair but China was sucking precious metals from Western Eurasia for most of the first and second millenia.

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#56

Post by imron »

powstudio wrote: post #11

China is one black swan event away from an economic collapse and possible Arab spring. The authoritarian Chinese government is starting to have some sense of fear now. Between the 300%+ gdp/debt ratio, second real estate bubble bursting in shanghai/tier1 cities, huge spike in shadow lending, stalled stock market, complete frozen capital control, Trump's 100 day ultimatum to China regarding trade deficit, demographics…

I first read about the coming collapse of China in 2001 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coming_Collapse_of_China - revised edition published in 2012).

I'm sure it will happen one day, and then all the broken clocks will be right.

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#57

Post by 68c12c16 »

imron wrote: post #54
68c12c16 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, like you are winning the argument by double down-voting my post without giving a word of reasoning...

You can't downvote people who reply to you, so more likely is that rather than being 'double downvoted' by someone, multiple people find your argument unpersuasive.

thanks for giving me that information...

Well, I noticed there had been a pattern for my multiple posts on this topic that, for several times, each time when a post was downvoted, it was double downvoted...

So either it was a very synchronized move by several independent minds, or more likely, it was from a same mind who operates several accounts...

Edit 1:

I personally would not mind at all that any of my posts has been downvoted -- and if the person would like to provide any reasoning for his downvoting, then that would be better...After all, the whole point is not to win over your opponent but to find some thing that is closer to the truth and justice -- if there is any...

But manipulating the visibility of other people's words by casting multiple downvotes by a same individual is sheer disgusting and does not make any sense to prove any point...as if that is a way of finding out truth and justice, then truth and justice would be equivalent to registering and manipulating more accounts than your opponents'...this reduces the human talent of reasoning to a series of steps of mechanical movement...it is a waste of his own life, as well as his audience's time...

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#58

Post by barry-cotter »

powstudio wrote: post #11

China is one black swan event away from an economic collapse and possible Arab spring. The authoritarian Chinese government is starting to have some sense of fear now. Between the 300%+ gdp/debt ratio, second real estate bubble bursting in shanghai/tier1 cities, huge spike in shadow lending, stalled stock market, complete frozen capital control, Trump's 100 day ultimatum to China regarding trade deficit, demographics…

Economic collapse? Are you insane? China very likely has a property crash in its near future but even the very most developed parts of China are not near to Korea, Japan or Taiwan. There's a lot of room for China to grow and there's no reason to believe growth is under 5%. Maybe heavily state directed capitalism can't reach South Korean levels of prosperity but if all of China reaches Shanghai prosperity that will be success.

And the Arab Spring was in very large part a result of rising bread prices as well as being a massive failure in every way outside Tunisia.

http://voxeu.org/article/measuring-and-mis-measuring-chinese...

Unofficial indicators of Chinese GDP often suggest that Beijing’s growth figures are exaggerated. This column uses nighttime light as a proxy to estimate Chinese GDP growth. Since 2012, the authors’ estimate is never appreciably lower, and is in many years higher, than the GDP growth rate reported in the official statistics. While not ruling out the risk of future turmoil, the analysis presents few immediate indications that Chinese growth is being systematically overestimated.

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#59

Post by anonsals »

powstudio wrote: post #11

China is one black swan event away from an economic collapse and possible Arab spring. The authoritarian Chinese government is starting to have some sense of fear now. Between the 300%+ gdp/debt ratio, second real estate bubble bursting in shanghai/tier1 cities, huge spike in shadow lending, stalled stock market, complete frozen capital control, Trump's 100 day ultimatum to China regarding trade deficit, demographics…

>...one black swan event away...

I read the book a long time ago, so I might be remembering it incorrectly, but aren't all nations just "one black swan event away" from something?

The idea is that you can't predict it and only makes sense when looking back.

Re: China Tells Carriers to Block Access to Personal VPNs by February

#60

Post by someonewhocar3s »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #33
schlipity wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can calculate the difference, couldn't a VPN force their traffic to mimic that difference as well?

You can't disguise an elephant as a mouse.

Imitate an encrypted video link?

Without crypto there's stenography.

As long as there is a legitimate data format there must be a way to emulate it.

The question isn't really if that's at all possible. The question is if you'd be willing to take the chance if the (fear of) retribution is great.

And even if you or someone still circumvents the GFW, it achieves its purpose of guiding the spirit of the people.

We should primarily cross our fingers, and hope the Chinese turn their collective spirit to global liberty and prosperity. At least, I'm in no position to affect them.

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