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Meet the Man Traveling the World on $25M of Bitcoin Profits

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Re: Meet the Man Traveling the World on $25M of Bitcoin Profits

#51

Post by owebmaster »

vertex-four wrote: post #46
owebmaster wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it may probably not be a solution or take a couple of decades, like the scalability of Elon Musk's projects.

I don't understand why you think Lightning Network wouldn't be a solution - the crypto side of it is very well-specced and works, and there's plenty of research papers describing various methods of finding a reasonably short path across routes between nodes. It solves specific problems Bitcoin users have today (it provides fast, cheap transactions, which Bitcoin currently doesn't), so it will gain quick adoption. It'…

Because all this digital coin thing is bullshit. When it becomes relevant, it will be corporate owned (isn't it already?) and it will be the new mainstream politics/economics, not the "REVOLUTION!". Just like Facebook/Google are the internet nowadays. Very far from that liberate and revolutionary thing, right?

Re: Meet the Man Traveling the World on $25M of Bitcoin Profits

#52

Post by vinchuco »

pen2l wrote: post #4

Isn't Satoshi probably a billionaire? Now THAT is an interesting story. The guy must go through the struggle of fighting against cashing in every single day. Fun to ponder.

I personally do not expect those figures to move anytime soon. My interpretation is that, if you're the architect of Bitcoin, moving this money could send the message of 'cashing out', affecting its perceived value.

Re: Meet the Man Traveling the World on $25M of Bitcoin Profits

#53

Post by vinchuco »

nosuchthing wrote: post #32
jcslzr wrote: post #6

Math guy explains bitcoin: https://youtu.be/bBC-nXj3Ng4

Math guy neglected to mention the ponzi scheme aspect of these cryptocoins, where the early adopters amass large quantities of coins for no reason other then running the software for a short duration and significantly lower cost of processing cycles, all by design. Rubes trading excessive amounts of fiat cash for digital tokens are baffling, and a testament to how deranged economics can get simply by assuming an asse…

It's not a Ponzi scheme. It may not be "fair" in the sense you put it, but it's not that.

Re: Meet the Man Traveling the World on $25M of Bitcoin Profits

#54

Post by vertex-four »

pmorici wrote: post #49
vertex-four wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why you think Lightning Network wouldn't be a solution - the crypto side of it is very well-specced and works, and there's plenty of research papers describing various methods of finding a reasonably short path across routes between nodes. It solves specific problems Bitcoin users have today (it provides fast, cheap transactions, which Bitcoin currently doesn't), so it will gain quick adoption. It'…

For starters the people pushing lightning are religiously opposing any increase in the block size. For lightening to even be viable on a world wide scale the block size will need to be increased.

The point of Lightning is that transactions don't go on the blockchain until they need to be settled - payment channels could be open for months or years without being settled if there's no need to access the underlying currency. If everyone uses Lightning Network for the vast, vast majority of transactions (and there's no reason not to), the only times most people would ever have to put something on the blockchain is when the entity on the other end of their payment channel disappears, or they have more currency than they've ever had before.

The issue, if anything, is exactly the opposite - that there'll be little incentive to mine without enough transactions on the chain, and the security of the network will come crashing down.

Lightning Network also provides for decentralised, trustless currency exchanges - so the inflexibility of one blockchain will finally not matter much. You could pay someone in bitcoin and the other person could receive litecoin as easily as you can do similar things with a credit card today.

Re: Meet the Man Traveling the World on $25M of Bitcoin Profits

#55

Post by vertex-four »

owebmaster wrote: post #51
vertex-four wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why you think Lightning Network wouldn't be a solution - the crypto side of it is very well-specced and works, and there's plenty of research papers describing various methods of finding a reasonably short path across routes between nodes. It solves specific problems Bitcoin users have today (it provides fast, cheap transactions, which Bitcoin currently doesn't), so it will gain quick adoption. It'…

Because all this digital coin thing is bullshit. When it becomes relevant, it will be corporate owned (isn't it already?) and it will be the new mainstream politics/economics, not the "REVOLUTION!". Just like Facebook/Google are the internet nowadays. Very far from that liberate and revolutionary thing, right?

It isn't very revolutionary - it's a capitalist system through and through. That has absolutely nothing to do with the technical details of why Lightning Network won't work.

Re: Meet the Man Traveling the World on $25M of Bitcoin Profits

#56

Post by owebmaster »

vertex-four wrote: post #55
owebmaster wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because all this digital coin thing is bullshit. When it becomes relevant, it will be corporate owned (isn't it already?) and it will be the new mainstream politics/economics, not the "REVOLUTION!". Just like Facebook/Google are the internet nowadays. Very far from that liberate and revolutionary thing, right?

It isn't very revolutionary - it's a capitalist system through and through. That has absolutely nothing to do with the technical details of why Lightning Network won't work.

I never said "lightning network" won't work. I said that it doesn't matter. If bitcoin someday becomes a thing, it will just behave like dollar, nothing less. With more technology, someone or some corporation will find a way to concentrate more power. Then someone will come up with an idea of a new way to do transactions. Algorithms don't fix social issues. People fix social issues.

Re: Meet the Man Traveling the World on $25M of Bitcoin Profits

#57

Post by vertex-four »

owebmaster wrote: post #56
vertex-four wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't very revolutionary - it's a capitalist system through and through. That has absolutely nothing to do with the technical details of why Lightning Network won't work.

I never said "lightning network" won't work. I said that it doesn't matter. If bitcoin someday becomes a thing, it will just behave like dollar, nothing less. With more technology, someone or some corporation will find a way to concentrate more power. Then someone will come up with an idea of a new way to do transactions. Algorithms don't fix social issues. People fix social issues.

In response to my message saying that Lightning Network is only a year or so away, you said:

> But it may probably not be a solution or take a couple of decades, like the scalability of Elon Musk's projects.

But OK, if you meant something other than what you actually said, fine.

Re: Meet the Man Traveling the World on $25M of Bitcoin Profits

#58

Post by pmorici »

vertex-four wrote: post #54
pmorici wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For starters the people pushing lightning are religiously opposing any increase in the block size. For lightening to even be viable on a world wide scale the block size will need to be increased.

The point of Lightning is that transactions don't go on the blockchain until they need to be settled - payment channels could be open for months or years without being settled if there's no need to access the underlying currency. If everyone uses Lightning Network for the vast, vast majority of transactions (and there's no reason not to), the only times most people would ever have to put something on the blockchain i…

You haven't addressed my comment you are just blabbering. In order to open and close lightening channels on chain transactions are required. Heck in order to protect yourself from fraud in the lightening model you need to be able to do on chain transactions.

Nothing you said addresses the concern that the people pushing lightening network the hardest are religiously opposed to raising the block size which will make it impossible to deploy lightening on a world wide scale because there won't be enough on chain transaction space to open up these lightening channels.

Re: Meet the Man Traveling the World on $25M of Bitcoin Profits

#59

Post by [deleted] »

pmorici wrote: post #48
fapjacks wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this reflects my position: I'm out of all cryptocurrencies except for a small bit to fuel a couple side projects. I'm waiting for the coming crash so I can buy.

Everyone says that but when the crash actually happens they always get cold feet because the prevailing view is that Bitcoin is dead and done and never going to recover so they lose their nerve and don't follow through. But best of luck.

[deleted]

Re: Meet the Man Traveling the World on $25M of Bitcoin Profits

#60

Post by vertex-four »

pmorici wrote: post #58
vertex-four wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of Lightning is that transactions don't go on the blockchain until they need to be settled - payment channels could be open for months or years without being settled if there's no need to access the underlying currency. If everyone uses Lightning Network for the vast, vast majority of transactions (and there's no reason not to), the only times most people would ever have to put something on the blockchain i…

You haven't addressed my comment you are just blabbering. In order to open and close lightening channels on chain transactions are required. Heck in order to protect yourself from fraud in the lightening model you need to be able to do on chain transactions. Nothing you said addresses the concern that the people pushing lightening network the hardest are religiously opposed to raising the block size which will make i…

I'd have to have opened a grand total of one channel over the past four years, personally - I have a suspicion that most people do not regularly gain more income than they've ever had before, as they spend it at a broadly similar rate as they gain it.

In addition to this, as I said, the fact that Lightning Network is a protocol that allows cross-blockchain transactions between any two chains supporting Lightning Network means that if, as you say, Bitcoin has severe problems, everyone will just jump ship to another currency, as there will be far fewer switching costs.

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