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Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

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Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#51

Post by taway_1212 »

mamon wrote: post #49
taway_1212 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One was a remote job at a SV startup and now I'm making pretty much the same in an in-office job in an international corp. I filled a niche they badly needed to fill (it's not like I'm some unicorn though) hence the unusally high pay.

Is that niche called Machine Learning? :)

Nope, it's Big Data (infrastructure, pipelines etc.). Nothing exciting or innovative, it's just that there are too few people in this field who know what they're doing compared to the demand.

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#52

Post by Luc »

taway_1212 wrote: post #28
charlesdm wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't live in EE (and maybe I'm naive about this), but shouldn't it actually be easier to find great talent if you put in an effort? I mean, there are great people in pretty much in every country, and if the alternative is, say, (boring) outsourcing development work, shouldn't you be able to convince people with above average (local) pay and offering them a great place to work, etc?

> convince people with above average (local) pay and offering them a great place to work With hardly any VC money around, you don't really have a way to pay for those.

A great many successful entrepreneurs have money (and often a tradition of entrepreneurship) in the family to get them started. No VC needed.

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#53

Post by baybal2 »

paganel wrote: post #7
galfarragem wrote: post #4

Fortune cookie: a niche IT job in Eastern Europe will, with high probability, grant you the best life standards available worldwide.

A great number of my Romanian programmer friends have already started to realize this and have stopped emigrating to other European countries. Yeah, moving to a place like London would most probably get you 2 or maximum 3 times the salary you are now getting, but you'd also have to pay rent which is 8 to 10 times higher in London, going out is outrageously expensive (7 pounds for buying a beer in a pub after a day's…

>7 pounds for buying a beer in a pub after a day's work is pure robbery

7 pounds beer is shi£ there, normal beers start at double that price

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#54

Post by Luc »

taway_1212 wrote: post #43
galfarragem wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be thankful, you might probably afford the best living standards that is possible to afford as an employee... worldwide. I was an expat in Poland for some years (unfortunately non-STEM job) and with that money your only limit is yourself.

My plan is to retire in 5-7 years. I could do that sooner if I went into stock market (and prayed that the mythical 4% per year returns will be sustainable in the future) or became a landlord, but I prefer to play it safe.

Would you be retiring in Poland? What kind of monthly expense do you foresee?

I'm also dreaming of doing this, though currently on the other side of the world.

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#55

Post by icebraining »

baybal2 wrote: post #50
icebraining wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What values are we talking about? From a few sites, it seems ~31% (employer + employee), which doesn't seem that high relative to other European countries.

Even today, that 31% rate + 10% income tax, + other stuff can easily halve your income.

Yeah, well, as a Portuguese I'm paying 35% in SS contributions, plus more than 10% in income tax if one earns more than 920€/month, so I feel your pain.

It wouldn't really bother me if so much of it wasn't wasted, though.

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#56

Post by mamon »

taway_1212 wrote: post #51
mamon wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that niche called Machine Learning? :)

Nope, it's Big Data (infrastructure, pipelines etc.). Nothing exciting or innovative, it's just that there are too few people in this field who know what they're doing compared to the demand.

That's weird, because most Big Data jobs I know about are paying below average rates, like 3000 USD after tax, no more. Basically there's almost no market for such skills in Poland, yet.

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#57

Post by charlesdm »

taway_1212 wrote: post #43
galfarragem wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be thankful, you might probably afford the best living standards that is possible to afford as an employee... worldwide. I was an expat in Poland for some years (unfortunately non-STEM job) and with that money your only limit is yourself.

My plan is to retire in 5-7 years. I could do that sooner if I went into stock market (and prayed that the mythical 4% per year returns will be sustainable in the future) or became a landlord, but I prefer to play it safe.

What is playing it safe? Keeping it in cash in a bank account?

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#58

Post by yitchelle »

psvx wrote: post #20
Kaizeras wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bulgaria may not be entrepreneur friendly or corruption free, but it is not a misery cesspool I absolutely agree with your opinion. There are companies like Telerik (acquired by Progress Software) and Chaos Group which have earned our country a formidable reputation on the global tech scene and it's relatively easy to get recognized. The overall ennvironment is good too - the country has grown a lot since it became…

I'am an ex ChaosGroup employee and I can tell you that if there's one thing I learned while working there, it's that all these constraints are in your mind. You can find talent here. You can create a product here and sell it worldwide and be successful. You can be competetive or better than your western competition. In some ways, doing this is even easier than in the west. My view is that in order to be greatly succe…

4. world class execution.

Without this, all you have is just time to tinker about on an idea.

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#59

Post by taway_1212 »

charlesdm wrote: post #57
taway_1212 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My plan is to retire in 5-7 years. I could do that sooner if I went into stock market (and prayed that the mythical 4% per year returns will be sustainable in the future) or became a landlord, but I prefer to play it safe.

What is playing it safe? Keeping it in cash in a bank account?

> Keeping it in cash in a bank account?

Yes. There are accounts in Poland which pay around 0-2% post-tax above inflation (the number vary year-to-year, depending on current economical conditions), which will help the capital still earn a bit of money.

Re: Starting and self-funding a software business in Eastern Europe at the age of 23

#60

Post by gambiting »

kornakiewicz wrote: post #44
taway_1212 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

8500 USD after taxes here :) (in Poland) I spend around $1000 per month of that.

For all, be aware that this kind of money are extremely rare (but doable in some niches) in Poland. Half of that is generally perceived as very good salary for most IT jobs, and median is probably quarter of that.

Yep - even our prime minister/president doesn't make that much a month, more like half that. I used to know a Polish guy making million Polish zloty/year(so about $300k) but he was the head of the Polish division of a major German insurance company.

Most of my Polish friends working in Poland as programmers(ranging from C++ to Web development) make about ~$2500-3500/month, and that's considered extremely good for where they live(Krakow and Warsaw).

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