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A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

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Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#51

Post by woodruffw »

devmunchies wrote: post #37
woodruffw wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The extreme left throughout popular media? I watched a neoliberal win the democratic primary this past year. We can talk about whether the media was biased in her favor, but that would strengthen my point: they chose her over the progressive candidate. I really don't like this sort of "look what you made me do" thinking, especially when the reaction is to their own boogeymen. If the alt-right wants to blame the left…

Agree to disagree I guess. I wasn't even talking about politics. I was talking about the left-wing PC culture that is throughout society for the last few years. Can you say with an straight face that most universities, for example, aren't more extreme left than in the past? EDIT: In the past a progressive candidate wouldn't have even stood a chance, now one of them almost won.

> I was talking about the left-wing PC culture that is throughout society for the last few years.

First, I want to note that this has been a conservative talking point for a long time. It's flared up again since 2014 or so, but "PC culture" has been the go-to jab against coastal intellectualism since the early 1990s. That isn't to say that valid criticisms of (coastal, collegiate) intellectualism can't be made, just that the motives for the term "PC culture" are part of a broader and somewhat aged conservative campaign against the perceived liberal elite.

> Can you say with an straight face that most universities, for example, aren't more extreme left than in the past?

I can indeed say this with some certainty. I'm in college right now, in a department (philosophy) that conservatives frequently associate with rampant leftism and its intellectual mainstays (pomo, critical theory, &c). This has not reflected my experience at all - many of my professors are philosophical libertarians, and the diversity of ideas is actually broader than I expected going into the major.

I have also had progressive professors, but they have bent over backwards to make conservative students comfortable (even in environments where nobody was on the attack).

Of note: The most overt political actions I've seen recently on my campus have been plasterings of white supremacist posters [1] and the murder of a visiting black student by a white student [2].

[1]: http://www.dbknews.com/2017/03/28/umd-white-supremacist-post...

[2]: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/may/21/sean-urbansk...

Edit: Added "recently" to the final sentence. There were some campus sexual assault protests in my freshman and sophomore years that might be characterized as political (even if I wouldn't).

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#52

Post by dijit »

Trill-I-Am wrote: post #40
devmunchies wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree to disagree I guess. I wasn't even talking about politics. I was talking about the left-wing PC culture that is throughout society for the last few years. Can you say with an straight face that most universities, for example, aren't more extreme left than in the past? EDIT: In the past a progressive candidate wouldn't have even stood a chance, now one of them almost won.

How much exposure to "extreme leftism" would you say you get on a day to day basis at your job, in your informal social interactions, etc.?

Can't speak for the parent. But it's pretty typical in my job to be surrounded by "leftist" ideology. I say this as a big ol' lefty myself.

This question is bait though, to say something like "I don't like that I'm told to hire women over men" has many interpretations.

One is that I'm a sexist pig trying to throw women out because they're women.

Another is that I'm trying to get the best candidate based on skill not gender.

And yet another is that I am propping up the status quo by not altering my behaviour to be more inclusive.

It all depends on how _you_ feel about me saying that. And that's not a good tone for further discussion.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#53

Post by xorium »

peruvian wrote: post #6
Kec71 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nevertheless, /pol/ and r/the_donald were one of main factors why Donald Trump got elected. This crowdsurfing phenomenon holds tremendous amount of power.

What's crazy is that in the Bush/early Obama years 4chan was fairly liberal in terms of politics.

>the Bush/early Obama years

That was 4chan's "Ron Paul for President" and "Jews did 9/11" phase.

4chan was never liberal.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#54

Post by awirth »

If this is a subject that interests you, I'd recommend reading Angela Nagle's Kill All Normies: Online culture wars from 4chan and Tumblr to Trump and the alt-right[1]. It's a really level-headed look at online identity politics. It's an extension of her The Baffler article "The New Man of 4chan"[2], from last year which went into /r9k/, but in her book she analyzes both "sides" (4chan and tumblr, if you will) which I thought was really interesting analysis, even considering I watched it all unfold as it was happening.

[1]: http://www.zero-books.net/books/kill-all-normies [2]: https://thebaffler.com/salvos/new-man-4chan-nagle

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#55

Post by devmunchies »

Trill-I-Am wrote: post #40
devmunchies wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree to disagree I guess. I wasn't even talking about politics. I was talking about the left-wing PC culture that is throughout society for the last few years. Can you say with an straight face that most universities, for example, aren't more extreme left than in the past? EDIT: In the past a progressive candidate wouldn't have even stood a chance, now one of them almost won.

How much exposure to "extreme leftism" would you say you get on a day to day basis at your job, in your informal social interactions, etc.?

I live and work in downtown Seattle. I'd say "regularly". I don't even know who other conservatives are because we tend to keep that information, as I said, in the closet. I had one friend at work tell me in secret that he was also a conservative. All I'm saying is that conservatism is "unpopular" and sometimes "shameful" (at least from my experience), which is unhealthy.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#56

Post by jeffry233 »

anon6778 wrote: post #36
jeffry233 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The contrarian aspect of 4chan is important, but I think theres more to it than that. Contrarianism on 4chan during the Bush years wasn't nearly as violent and widespread as it's been lately, and I think it goes back to gamergate, which was the first time a lot of 4chan users experienced politics having an effect on something central to their culture. The only groups speaking out against "SJW culture" happened to be…

> There was also always an undercurrent of racism (spamming the n word goes back to the early days of /b/) You are conflating message with actual sentiment. Using racist language is simply a subset of inflammatory language and trolling. Calling people a retard or a faggot fulfills similar goals. It does not really tell you much whether the anonymous poster actually discriminates based on those attributes or just uses…

>You are conflating message with actual sentiment

Yeah, thats a fair point.

>cartoon child porn

I think you're misunderstanding what i'm saying here. Gamergate was a massive controversy that played out over the course of many months, was covered on national news networks and ruined many careers. It was a galvanizing event that brought people together in defense of their hobby. Cartoon child porn is a symbol of the belief system that you've described, but I don't think its possible to say that defending it galvanized the 4chan user base like gamergate.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#57

Post by tpush »

anon6778 wrote: post #36
jeffry233 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The contrarian aspect of 4chan is important, but I think theres more to it than that. Contrarianism on 4chan during the Bush years wasn't nearly as violent and widespread as it's been lately, and I think it goes back to gamergate, which was the first time a lot of 4chan users experienced politics having an effect on something central to their culture. The only groups speaking out against "SJW culture" happened to be…

> There was also always an undercurrent of racism (spamming the n word goes back to the early days of /b/) You are conflating message with actual sentiment. Using racist language is simply a subset of inflammatory language and trolling. Calling people a retard or a faggot fulfills similar goals. It does not really tell you much whether the anonymous poster actually discriminates based on those attributes or just uses…

"If you then continue to actually shoot up a school tomorrow then a) that's the actual crime b) great lulz will be head."

Really? "Great lulz will be head(sic)"?

I can't fathom what kind of person sees stuff like this and thinks to himself: "Yeah cool man! Exactly the type of community I want to be a part of!"

Like, are these all just bored kids? Adults who never developed empathy and have nothing else to do with their life?

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#58

Post by sinxoveretothex »

woodruffw wrote: post #35
devmunchies wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope its easy to see that the rise of this "cancer" and the alt-right was a natural response to the rise of the extreme left throughout popular media and in society in general. There is nothing wrong with moderate conservatism, but when one must keep their conservative views in the closet, and anything conservative (on Reddit, Twitter, or simply at work) is seen as an inferior view point rather than just a differen…

The extreme left throughout popular media? I watched a neoliberal win the democratic primary this past year. We can talk about whether the media was biased in her favor, but that would strengthen my point: they chose her over the progressive candidate. I really don't like this sort of "look what you made me do" thinking, especially when the reaction is to their own boogeymen. If the alt-right wants to blame the left…

I don't think the example you give is very poignant: the fact that the Democratic party (or rather its base) is not fully in line with its very progressive members, doesn't mean that there isn't a hard cultural push by said progressive members.

I do agree with you that this culture war didn't suddenly appear and divide society as a whole ex nihilo, but that's because nothing ever does. Movements start small and expand That's true of the particular brand of progressivism at hand here as well as the GNU movement or even the adoption of Linux and open source more broadly (those could sort of be said to have originated in a "culture war on the internet").

And I think it would be hard to dispute that the West has seen a very hard cultural push by progressives in recent years. Compare [1] to [2] for example. These are not equivalent examples and they are not meant to be. My point is that the sort of push seen in [1] clearly has implications outside of the abstract internet (Twitter is part of the Internet, but the point is that it has impacts on real life in a way 4chan doesn't). Also, Islamic stuff is perhaps the most obviously conservative stuff, but it's by no means the only one. Asian cultures in general are much more conservative than the West too.

[1] http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/steve-ladurantaye-editor...

[2] https://np.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/6jbyu1/serious_pe...

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#59

Post by travmatt »

jeffry233 wrote: post #39
devmunchies wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope its easy to see that the rise of this "cancer" and the alt-right was a natural response to the rise of the extreme left throughout popular media and in society in general. There is nothing wrong with moderate conservatism, but when one must keep their conservative views in the closet, and anything conservative (on Reddit, Twitter, or simply at work) is seen as an inferior view point rather than just a differen…

I see plenty of conservatism all over Reddit and all of those other places you mentioned. It happens in boring threads on boring articles that aren't politically charged. What causes the downvotes is the way the ideas are presented. If you write your comment like you're a writer for the Rush Limbaugh Show, you're going to be downvoted. There is plenty of room to discuss conservative ideas without resorting to the rhe…

I'm also old enough to remember /r/chimpire and other explicitly racist right wing subreddits who had massive support, well before the rise /r/the_donald. Hell, I even remember discussing the organized stormfront propaganda raids. To me, crying about the lack of conservatism is just code for "people don't follow my ideologies exactly, therefore I'm being oppressed." I follow plenty of subreddits where there is plenty of conservative thought.

Re: A Study of 4chan’s Politically Incorrect Forum and Its Effects on the Web [pdf]

#60

Post by [deleted] »

awirth wrote: post #54

If this is a subject that interests you, I'd recommend reading Angela Nagle's Kill All Normies: Online culture wars from 4chan and Tumblr to Trump and the alt-right[1]. It's a really level-headed look at online identity politics. It's an extension of her The Baffler article "The New Man of 4chan"[2], from last year which went into /r9k/, but in her book she analyzes both "sides" (4chan and tumblr, if you will) which…

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